Feminism - College Project

Don’t get disheartened OP, I’ve posted a uni survey on mumsnet before and got a few criticisms on the methodology...but it was worth it, the responses were helpful and it gave me stuff to talk about in the reflection bit.

I’m sorry I tried to complete your survey but I found it hard to read the green writing/white background (I’ve got a headache today)

I love mumsnet, it's beautifully critical in thinking and yet to be censored :)

I have completed your survey, but agree with the points made about methodology. You've excluded a lot of feminists who won't grit their teeth (as I did) on the gender q. The question about men being feminists also needs a not sure type answer. Just some constructive feedback. Good luck with your course.

BarrackerBarmer Fri 16-Mar-18 00:17:13
"The point is that many of us would in fact like to help, but CANNOT truthfully answer questions that are restricted to gender this way.

Vegetarians: what is your favourite meat:
Lamb
Chicken
Other

Fine, don't answer if you don't want to, but I'm trying to be inclusive of meat eaters here in my study on vegetarianism."

Excellently put. I have not completed the survey for the very simple reason that I cannot stop rolling my eyes at the first question. And the thrust is so clearly not about feminism but as LostArt said (Sat 17-Mar-18 17:37:33), "I think Roisin's mistake was to introduce it as a feminist survey, when it's a survey to find how many 18-20 year olds would buy a t-shirt with 'girl power' or 'femme' on it."

I think the OP probably spent Thursday night in the student union bar reading our comments out while all the ‘woke’ students discussed how terribly transphobic Mumsnet is. Any dissenters will have been looked at in horror and sent for re-education.

Look, the OP might well be a bit wet behind the ears but if she is doing an academic course involving research then she should be aware of the different types of research and the possible problems with each. Response bias and question framing are two of the big ones with questionnaires/surveys. They study this at A level for pity's sake.

If the OP can't even get past question one without falling into both response bias and question framing then her questionnaire is pointless.

It's not mean to point that out. It's helpful.

I confess to owning a Feminist Killjoy sweat shirt, if that helps.

What an odd survey. What are you looking at, the link between identifying as a feminist and buying slogan t shirts? Which celebrity might have the most successful girl power slogan t shirt range?

errr Emma Watson is female

The survey raised something else for me that I find worrying.

One of the questions was whether I knew any celebrities that identified as feminists. The two that jumped into my head were Emma Watson and Munroe Bergdorf.

The people who are pushing themselves forwards and getting most media attention as feminists are male. Some of them seem to regularly feature as speakers at women’s marches. Everywhere TIMs invade, they take over.

I’m disappointed that the focus is not on how great it is that young people are looking at these topics at college The problem being April, that the focus is on something most people here consider anti-feminist and that appears to some of us as something that is being introduced under the radar that will lead to more subjugation. So it’s great if colleges look at feminism, but only if they offer a rounded view of what feminism actually is. The survey shows a deeply skewed view being accepted without question.

Helen Lewis @helenlewis Mar 7
It's a crass version of identity politics to conflate feminism with "what most women think". Feminism is an ideology and and an intellectual tradition, not a survey result. Marxism remained Marxism even as working class Britons voted for Thatcher.

Fell at the first hurdle. Yours is not a survey of feminism but of millennial identity politics. I look forward to reading the trans affirming findings in Pink News.

Mam - love your last post, many insightful points, and as someone who has also had their arse handed to them on a plate, you have really made me chuckle ;)

The points you have made about brainwashing I really find interesting- I don’t see many students, but when I do speak to younger woman on sexism / feminism it’s so disappointing to me that they will start statements with “I’m not a feminist but...” why is there a feeling of not want to identify with what should be such a positive concept? Why don’t they feel it’s for them? I think on some occasions it’s because of the type of responses on here.

I’m also sure some of it is also is what you describe above about a male centre approach, and a bubble away from some more robust views. What I would love to see is feminist debate encouraging young people to engage and explore feminism, based on the issues they find interesting and important, without men or woman ‘telling’ them how to do feminism, (however sure we are of our own views). The issues that are important to them will likely change over time - returning to work after mat leave and career barriers post parenthood, has never been more relevant to me, but it wasn’t my main talking point when I was 19. Young people exploring any of this is a great opportunity to share some of the really relevant and important points you have raised, I just think we need to do it in a way that doesn’t alienate or disengage.

The trans debate is massive, and all feminists should be allowed to shape their own views on it, without their chosen response resulting in them being ‘banished’ from feminism. Those who seek to obscure the barriers woman face in society would love nothing more than in-fighting about trans removing the focus from the wider debate, and that would really piss me off 😉😀

I think Roisin's mistake was to introduce it as a feminist survey, when it's a survey to find how many 18-20 year olds would buy a t-shirt with 'girl power' or 'femme' on it.

@roisinjf you seem to be getting a lot of hassle just for posting a survey!

I've done it anyway, best of luck with your assignment

It’s more constructive criticism. I don’t think we do students any favours by protecting them from real world opinions. The current state of academia prevents students from glimpsing anything outside that very protected bubble. There is a danger of producing an entire generation of ‘feminists’ who centre men. I work with a ton of them who are mid-brainwashing, because critical voices are not tolerated within these schools. It’s tricky. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, really. Apologies if you felt I was being condescending though. Disapproving, certainly.
Getting my arse handed to me on a plate made a lot more aware of other people’s viewpoints. Recognising your own inherent bias is a good first step to becoming more aware of other people’s.
(At that point I was totally an ally so like Roisin, I was under the misapprehension that I understood the people I was trying to research.)
I pretty much was Roisin lol. I’m a lot better researcher for the robust responses I received that gave me important feedback on how lame my approach was.

And so that is how you intend to respond to others mam? Your response is really condescending, as a feminist I don’t agree with the points you have made.

Astraia - me too. You should have seen the burns I received from my first foray onto a trans forum.

Roisin, as a student collecting data for a research project, your survey should include an information page detailing which school, an email address to contact you/ your supervisor, and how to receive details of the results, and show an awareness of the principles of informed consent.
Your survey is clearly biased in all the myriad ways explained above, and yet no doubt you will be using the echo chamber responses from male people to reinforce your ‘feminism’, while actual feminists are excluded.
This is not a survey to research opinion. It is a product unconsciously designed to underline your own bias and those of the transactivist community. It has nothing to do with feminism.
Please use this an opportunity to exercise some critical thinking that goes beyond ‘male children can totes become women’, and stop centring men’s needs for validation in your ‘feminism’.

And I agree with all of that, but I think all of those learning points could have been achieved with more constructive, less hostile responses. There shouldn’t be some kind of ‘hazing’ process to exploring feminism.

I think it's important to challenge wrong assumptions, though.

Early on in one of my undergraduate research projects I was trying to find out about a certain group of people (not feminists, but it's comparable). I posted on a forum specifically for them, and got some fairly harsh critique about my focus and choice of terms. I felt a bit piled-on and soon left the thread, but I did go and do more reading around the topic and looked into why they preferred the terms they did, and the issues they had with my initial plan. I felt a bit hurt by their comments at first, because I was sympathetic to their aims and so expected a more positive response. But I think that taking on board what they'd said improved the project considerably.

Hopefully the OP will have got something out of this thread, even if not all the replies were 'nice'.

With respect Kocah in terms of collecting data it’s college project to collect some views, not a PhD thesis. Or even a degree. She was just asking for some thoughts - more fool her it seems.

Being saddened about the questions she is asking - again she has not stated - this questionnaire is designed to explore the be all and end all of what feminism’ is it’s about the impact of celebrity on it. I don’t understand why it’s unacceptable to ask woman if they show / express feminist attitudes with slogan t shirts as per some celebrities? Iget that you do not see these as the core concerns of feminism, and that’s ok, no one has asked you to compromise your views just by asking questions about something else.

Certainly the wording around gender and sex needs further consideration - I’m not sure I would have articulated these descriptors very well when I was at college either, but that’s why it’s very important for people to explore and learn about this. Progress is based on the curiously of people asking questions and I think that should be encouraged. In this case I think the OP left the debate pages ago to look at doing a different study, as a result of the flaming from the readers her and I don’t blame her - if this was my first step into feminism I would not return to it either. This whole thread makes feminism sound like some exclusive members only club you’re only ‘allowed’ to be part if everyone else agrees with your take. There are loads of young people who don’t give a shit about these issues - perhaps this thread should save their lectures and critism for them rather than people trying to learn.

Perhaps the survey is aimed at mummies not feminists?

Or the tutor is setting the OP up and the OP will report back on the comments here and it is the tutor's way of discussing sex versus gender without getting sacked?

Who knows...?