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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paris Lees just been hugely dissed live on TV

182 replies

Wobbleslikeaweeble · 15/03/2018 10:23

Ok sounds gossipy but PL is on the Wright Stuff right now and disagreed with Anne whatshername from the chase and Anne just said “you should know you used to be a boy” - huge Awkward silence.

Tbh, I don’t like Anne and her reply to Lees was harsh and unnecessary. I really don’t like PLs either to be clear. It was quite a 😱 moment.

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InLoveWithDavidTennant · 15/03/2018 11:55

I’ve actually agreed with Lees comments much more than Anne’s in general during the show. Anne is coming over as quite anti women and doesn’t really seem to like them or think women have it harder than men in society.

I’ve agreed a lot with ehat they’ve said this morning on male power and women’s rights. Anne - not at all. Just because I’m gen crit doesn’t mesn i have to automatically disagree with a TW and support a woman - no matter what.

This

I was actually suprised to find myself nodding along and agreeing with PL and shaking my head at Anne. I cant stand PL but that doesnt mean im going to dismiss everything they have to say just because i dont like them.

The world really is topsy turvey right now isnt it Grin

Jayceedove · 15/03/2018 11:51

Who is claiming this was transphobic? Has anybody? Other than this thread?

As a trans woman there was nothing at all phobic about that comment. It is pretty much what I would have expected Ann to say.

I have done hundreds of TV interviews over the years whilst never talking about trans matters (I transitioned 45 years ago) and always knew at any time that someone could say such a thing to me. As my trans status was known but never a subject for open debate because I was not pushing an agenda. fighting for rights or talking about the topic.

But even in those circumstances - especially if the interviewer was someone like James Whale who you might expect to be acerbic nobody ever did. They just asked me about why I was there.

Ditto when I was on Woman's Hour. Not a word about being trans.

I know if I were doing this kind of thing today it would be utterly different and I likely would get asked often.

Paris has put herself out there for just that reason and has to be able to take it with grace and respect.

Like me she might feel that she was 'never' really a boy, as in believed or felt like one even as a child. But equally she knows that this was a statement of fact. No more, no less.

So you have to be ready, willing and able to roll with that and talk around it. Or you should not be on TV talking about these things.

It is a controversial subject and there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the debate. You win nobody over by trying to shut them up.

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 15/03/2018 11:51

I am not suggesting that Paris would have experience of an old boys club simply due to having being male, I think that Annes response related to the fact that Paris strongly stated that there WAS an old boys club, as if she had experience/knowledge of it, which in my opinion is what prompted Annes response and interpretation.

McTufty · 15/03/2018 11:47

I acknowledge Anne has autism and that I don’t know enough about the condition to comment on whether or not this is an excuse - from what I’ve read on this thread, it may well be. That aspect needs to be considered and treated sympathetically.

Putting that to one side and looking only at the comment, I think it was out of order. Being male or not does not mean someone knows if there is an “old boys club” or not, so it comes across as snarky at Paris for being trans.

I am gender critical and consider Paris Lees a misogynist, but this comment was not appropriate.

AliceBuysAbar · 15/03/2018 11:46

On the other hand, if someone (autism or not) said to someone 'you should know, you used to be fat' I guess that would also be quite hurtful, even if it were true.

Fat is derogatory but saying you used to be overweight when discussing a diet related topic may be relevant and ok. Noboyd has the right not to be offended.

knowwhereyourheadis · 15/03/2018 11:43

~This is the second thread I've read on MN this morning about this TV moment. And all I can think is Who the fuck is Paris Lees......

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 15/03/2018 11:39

My personal interpretation was that Anne was conceding her point and defferring to Paris’ experience on the matter, because she used to be a boy.

Obviously I am not Anne, so dont know her intention, but that is how it seemed to me.

tabulahrasa · 15/03/2018 11:38

“Anne is coming over as quite anti women and doesn’t really seem to like them or think women have it harder than men in society.“

If she’s coming across as not thinking women have it harder, she probably does think that.

My (adult) DS has AS and has a very hard time understanding things like the pay gap, AS does mean that people usually have very rigid thinking so to him gendered jobs with different pay levels are diffferent jobs, full stop and sacrificing a career after children is a choice so how can it be anything to do with inequality...

The subtleties are completely lost on him, until I spend a lot of time showing him them.,.and even then he’s only really going on my say so because he respects my opinion rather than really being convinced, lol.

Gamer gate took months to talk him through as he was a teenager heavily involved in gaming.

And to be fair, lots of people can’t see the deeper issues around the pay gap without AS, so that black and white way of thinking isn’t going to help.

SmurfOrTerf · 15/03/2018 11:33

harsh and unnecessary Grin
really

you do know how Paris makes a living I take it

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 15/03/2018 11:33

Just watched it, cant get upset about Annes context either.

Paris said that she disagreed with the idea that there ‘wasn’t’ an old boys club. Annes response was, well you would know because you used to be a boy. (Paraphrased)

What is the problem with that context?

Wobbleslikeaweeble · 15/03/2018 11:32

yeah Anne was rude and sounded like an idiot, I preferred what Lees said.

Well yes, I don’t like Lees tske on trans rights and am blocked bybthem on twitter but I’ve agreed a lot with ehat they’ve said this morning on male power and women’s rights. Anne - not at all. Just because I’m gen crit doesn’t mesn i have to automatically disagree with a TW and support a woman - no matter what.

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LangCleg · 15/03/2018 11:29

Good for Anne.

BetsyM00 · 15/03/2018 11:27

I missed this. Turned off after the conversation on the demise of the high street where Lees said he would be lost without Topshop as he likes to try clothes on.

Was anything said later in the prog?

Tralalee · 15/03/2018 11:26

yeah Anne was rude and sounded like an idiot, I preferred what Lees said.

I just wish they'd get a sense of humour somewhere down the line

Wobbleslikeaweeble · 15/03/2018 11:25

I didn’t ssy it was transphobic though many will obviously think so. I said it was rude and unnecessary given PLs comment - it came across as a snidey put doen becsuse Lees disagreed with her.

I’ve actually agreed with Lees comments much more than Anne’s in general during the show. Anne is coming over as quite anti women and doesn’t really seem to like them or think women have it harder than men in society.

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LittleLebowski · 15/03/2018 11:24

Yes TRAs hoisted by their own petard I hope. As you say since everything is transphobic, it makes actual transphobia more difficult to deal with. Given the PosieParker free speech issue, I'm interested to know if Anne's comment will be termed a hate crime.
I expect a grovelling apology will be issued.......

CoolCarrie · 15/03/2018 11:24

We are “not allowed” to mention the trans part, we are supposed to just say women/ woman, despite the fact that the trans part is all they really have to contribute to interviews, appear on BB, etc, one trick ponies.

Lovesagin · 15/03/2018 11:21

Dissed? Hardly, they did used to be a boy, still are but present as how they think a woman should look and have had surgery to change their appearance, but, yes, still a male. How is that a dissing? Confused

Tralalee · 15/03/2018 11:20

Why can't TIMs laugh that kind of comment off?

Why can't they say " yes I suppose I did, kind of" or something?

Honestly people would be so much more accepting if they did

TerfyMcTerface · 15/03/2018 11:18

How the fuck can it be transphobic?!

Because literally everything is transphobic, according to trans activists. Everything. Except trans people themselves. And even some of them (the gender critical kind) are probably transphobic. I don't doubt in the slightest that Anne will be called transphobic for this, by the many, many nutters on Twitter. But of course, the word has been rendered utterly meaningless through indiscriminate overuse.

wildduckhunt · 15/03/2018 11:14

How the fuck can it be transphobic?

That's what puzzles me. By calling someone trans, we acknowledge biology but at the same time expect everyone to pretend they don't see it.

Iminthecclubnow · 15/03/2018 11:11

Anne Hegerty is the boy from The Emperors New Clothes!

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 15/03/2018 11:10

Such a non-thing

Destinysdaughter · 15/03/2018 11:10

There's a conference about what's wrong with men? Shock

That will be interesting...

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 15/03/2018 11:09

How the fuck can it be transphobic?!