Paris Lees just been hugely dissed live on TV

Well done, derxa. It feels good to do something, doesn't it?

Also - a woman being rude is not somehow less acceptable than a man being rude. Women should not be held to a higher standard, and attempting to do so is sexist.

I actually phoned TWS about this. I got through and said that not everyone agreed with this apology and garbled something about infringement of women's rights. The young intern or whoever was a bit stunned but perfectly polite. I put the phone down as I was shaking. MN you have turned me into a TERF. Anne was rude but said the truth.

It would be great if TRAs could admit that "rude" and "omg they hate me and want me to die!" are different things.

This! Tweeting, 'you are a man, women don't have penises' is NOT 'hate speech', 'horrific abuse' or 'harrassment'. Nor does it mean that someone who writes the above wants all trans people 'exterminated' or 'wiped off the face of the planet'.

It was far too close to a personal attack for my liking, and when we get into that territory, we've lost.
howitworks.png

Who was the apology actually issued to? Most of us can understand that it's a factually accurate statement so no libel/slander laws were broken?

So what? It's true.

It would be great if TRAs could admit that "rude" and "omg they hate me and want me to die!" are different things. Not holding my breath, but it would be nice.

I disagreed with Anne on this particular subject but she wasn't wrong. PL was born and raised as a boy, the context in which she said it wasn't great but I don't think the show needed to apologise. People always disagree with each other and sometimes snarky remarks are made but the show has never apologised on their behalf.

The whole thing is just a mess. Yes, Anne was factually accurate, but that's about the only thing she was right about. PL, as much as they wind me up, was much better. This time. It was far too close to a personal attack for my liking, and when we get into that territory, we've lost.

Having now watched the original clip I have to say that the comment appeared to be intended as a shut down to someone who was disagreeing with her. I don't think it warranted an on air apology but nor do I think she was 'simply stating a fact'. I think she was being abrasive and resorted to a personal dig to close down the discussion.

I also totally disagree with her stance about women/pay gaps and the old boys club.

The irony that a woman apologised too. Arrrgh! Sorry for ranting but I am so cross!

That's what i thought. Confused...

They apologised. And so it goes on.

I’ve joined twitter to tweet them but I can’t work out how to Tweet😂. Anyone know how?

I swear this is just Matthew Wright taunting the “Mumsnet Harridans”.

“Well I’m fucking offended that they’ve apologised. Anne made a comment about Paris’ SEX and it was correct.”

This x 100.

So angry about this. George Orwell would be turning in his grave.

I just heard that too.

“Anne mad a comment about gender. We apologised to Paris and to any viewers who were offended”

Well I’m fucking offended that they’ve apologised. Anne made a comment about Paris’ SEX and it was correct.

What fucking world are we living in, where we have to apologise for people being offended by a statement of biological fact!!!! I despair.

Was just coming on to mention the apology!

Ugh!!! They just apologised!!!!!!

Though I have only watched the clip, so don’t know what the wider discussion was. Just saying that ‘old boys network’ to ‘Paris used to be a boy’ is not a valid connection to make.

I’m another who is in no way a fan of PL’s, but I think Anne’s comment was just rude, and pretty close to something like actual transphobia. She used the fact that Paris used to be a boy to make a snarky remark which had nothing to do with the topic they were discussing. Old boys networks are about the elite men holding on to their power by passing it on to other men with the right connections, and are as inaccessible to the average boy as they are to the average girl. So Paris wouldn’t know all about it just by virtue of having been a boy, so Anne’s comment was just attacking/highlighting that aspect of Paris for no reason.

Probably a rather sharpish way to concede the point but that is what she did.

Ironically, although I am not a big Paris Lees fan at all, Paris was the one saying things closest to what I as a feminist felt!

Could not agree with Anne. The guys all seemed hung up on which men had power, I think meaning financial or political power. Quite missing the point that males, both fathers, and fathers-in-law (and even sons) can wield power in families and in the lives of the women they are in relationship with, which is a physical, tangible power quite unrelated to whether they have money, brains or a good job. In some families men can literally kill the women in their lives if the women step out of line, shame or 'dishonor' them or attempt to leave them. This power was not mentioned.

Short article and clip here

TBF PL doesn't seem to be making a big deal about this. No mention on Twitter, and the article just says that perhaps Anne didn't mean it the way it came out