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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paris Lees just been hugely dissed live on TV

182 replies

Wobbleslikeaweeble · 15/03/2018 10:23

Ok sounds gossipy but PL is on the Wright Stuff right now and disagreed with Anne whatshername from the chase and Anne just said “you should know you used to be a boy” - huge Awkward silence.

Tbh, I don’t like Anne and her reply to Lees was harsh and unnecessary. I really don’t like PLs either to be clear. It was quite a 😱 moment.

OP posts:
Jayceedove · 20/03/2018 14:51

Thank you. I know that I am far from the only one who would say something not too dissimilar and I hope some are brave enough to do so. As, of course, I know that I will not be welcomed out there for saying this. But all you can ever really be is true to yourself.

LizzieSiddal · 20/03/2018 14:43

Jacee Flowers
I think many(but not all) women would agree with you. I certainly do.
Bring back the word Transexual and it cuts out a lot of confusion.

Arkengarthdale · 20/03/2018 14:32

Jayceedove what a brilliant post!

sillage · 20/03/2018 14:17

This entire freakshow was intentionally set up to show how much more "womanly" makeup-slathered female mimic Paris is than old mannish harridan Anne.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 20/03/2018 14:06

Jayceedove
Flowers

Jayceedove · 20/03/2018 13:58

I do think it is true that there is some blame on all three sides here.

But what for years has been a well recognised and studied medical problem involving 0.01% (one in ten thousand) people around the world has somehow been hijacked over the past five years or so by several factions.

This seems to be because of the chinks of access they have seen with both the GRA - though that was law for a decade before this took off so less important than most think here I believe - and, more importantly, the Equality Act, as it was passed just before this really all got serious and actually is where the key issues of access and denial of access are defined.

So, yes, those involved in gender politics on both sides of the debate have realised there is a battle that could define the future of modern civilisation. And I agree that there is because self defining gender would have implications well beyond transgender activists. It would recast all of how everybody thinks.

Some of that may prove to be good for women, but some will definitely not. And, of course, it is true that some powerful forces out there - such as news barons - have sensed that and joined the debate in a desire to influence it and get sales off the back of it.

So there is a lot going on here and I am not diminishing its significance at all because it is obvious to see how fundamentally it will effect women - even those not aware of that fact yet.

However, oddly, very little of this really has anything to do with that core transsexual population - the 0.01% - although we are caught very firmly in almost everybody's cross hairs as a result of it.

A few of us are slowly waking up to that because as a small, unstructured group of people usually living quietly and without any leaders or community, we have generally not seen this bubbling antipathy as being framed around us. But as some odd people out there that are seemingly as baffling to us as they are to you.

One huge problem is the creation in America of the term transgender to cover such a vast swathe of gender non conformity that the very different and physically transitioned basis of the small transsexual community has become swallowed up and lost inside.

As you can see from the figures above - we are maybe 5000 or so in the UK in a population of 65 million. Or a bit more if you add the ones not legally registered (though most who are transsexual will if they can for obvious reasons of protection).

And the transgender community - many of whom just want to self identify, express themselves in a rag tag list of gender identities - from pangender to gender fluid to agender (I don't know or understand what most of the 22 gender terms they have 'identified' mean any more than you either) - well they are seemingly 120 times bigger as a group and extremely active and litigious!

So we have disappeared to the point of irrelevance and because of our desire just to get on with life and make no demands as has been the case for half a century did not even notice what was going on until recently like many of you did.

We had been brought up being told that our medical diagnosis was transsexual - because we knew we had a physical body of one sex but believed innately for some reason that this mismatched with our inner sense of what it should be. It was not about expression or toys or clothes and just a kind of split personality.

As such we knew it was obviously something wrong somewhere inside of us because we understand reality and were not seeking to redefine it.

We went to doctors for help and the only successful cure they had - or still have - was physical transition to the maximum science could achieve, never enough, never actual biological transition, but which is improving all the time.

Indeed the first transsexual woman is expected to give birth before 2030 according to experts in this area. And breast feeding by trans women has been possible to increasing degrees for a while but is not practised yet by us voluntarily out of concern it might harm the baby until an ongoing study is completed into the potential risks.

We awoke to the row exploding all around us slowly over the last 2 - 3 years and have discovered the term transsexual has been replaced by transgender as it has to cover all those who just want to express themselves differently and dress and act as they choose. Because 'they are trans too and deserve the same recognition'.

This year the term transsexual was even officially removed.

Well, those of us so diagnosed over the past 50 years have started to reclaim it because we think the distinction is important. So you will see it used over and over on here and when you do this is why.

I think the difference will be quite easy for you to spot.

If a person has taken major steps to modify their body as far as science allows, or their own state of health allows, whilst recognising that this has not changed our biological sex (indeed we had to sign medical waivers confirming we understood that before surgery was allowed), and then has just got on with life happily and does not make demands of anyone about what words mean what or how it is possible to be a woman in possession of a functioning penis (a dangerously ludicrous statement) and is willing to work with you to enforce intimate same sex spaces because we do understand the reasons they have been protected within the laws - then they are almost certainly transsexual. Not 'transgender'.

And if they believe it is not necessary to look, act,or have any features of a woman and only need fill out a form and declare that and have the right to flip flop back as they choose and the rest of you should call them what they tell you and you should call yourself cis (insulting and pointless when the difference is already clear as you are trans or not trans) and that access to all spaces should be automatic on demand without having to have any kind of assessment or medical investigation or need to provide any evidence of long term persistence or permanence or ability to integrate successfully and usefully into society for two years without any residual negative effects on their mental health - and if they bypass all those existing rules to get recognised because they 'choose not to on principle' and just say 'I am a woman' and if you disagree then you are a bigot and they will run to the police.....well they are probably transgender.

DeleteOrDecay · 20/03/2018 09:03

*Immediately after the show ended Matthew was summoned to a 'crisis' meeting with Channel 5 honchos, who were ' terrified 'by the spectre of a Twitter backlash from the trans community.
*
Good lord talk about over reacting. Good on MW for pointing out the ridiculousness of it all. Shame that Anne probably won't be on the show again.

LostArt · 20/03/2018 05:49

It's true that trans rights wouldn't get anywhere without the support of powerful men, and I do believe that if anyone is going to be blamed for this, it's going to be women's and lgb groups. I can also see that trans visibility will diminish once the media get bored of it.

But all of that doesn't mean trans are innocent victims in all of this. Many TIM are not that dissimilar to those powerful men.

ReanimatedSGB · 19/03/2018 23:34

I've heard it mentioned quite a few times that some of the people who are stirring the pot on the issue of trans rights in general are people who actually don't care about either women, feminism or trans people - their agenda is to destroy what they consider 'identity politics' and promote the idea that the only people who can be trusted in positions of power, trusted not to be silly and have bitchfights are.... heterosexual cis men. Preferably white ones.

Jayceedove · 19/03/2018 20:27

Cady - it has become a vicious circle fuelled by a few activists on both sides and some media sources who are playing up the divisions to create stories which they are printing every day.

The existence of the fear of retribution is causing pre-emptive action out of expectation that then creates a new story that leads to further escalation.

Remember the spat about the London train announcements last year. A trans woman objected to being mistakenly gendered by a station staff. Complained. The staff member was told not to presume gender next time.

That ought to have been the end of the matter. No publicity. No story.

But to try to defuse any anticipated future reaction from trans activists - some of which no doubt might have come - an out of proportion decision was taken to abandon all pre recorded announcements saying 'Good morning ladies and gentlemen' on the grounds that this might offend someone who is either, neither or both.

Or possibly to not offend any guide dogs travelling or Martians if they failed to include them. Not sure. In any case it was bonkers.

The point is it was a totally needless OTT reaction born out of fear of a possible backlash. Not an actual backlash.

Just as with The Mathew Wright Show.

I cannot imagine who even listens to these train announcements let alone who could possibly get annoyed at one phrase clearly not directed at any individual let alone them.

But, of course, the act plays right into the hands of the media who have that days story ready to go and endless disgusted complaint posts on line. Click bait.

I am not saying there would be no backlash or that idiots are not saying stupid things. Because some clearly are.

However, this whole mess is spiralling out of control partly because of the agenda driven not by either side but the media who are using some incident to promote themselves with very powerful consequences given the numbers involved.

CadyHeron · 19/03/2018 19:44

So this was not, as being presumed, the trans agenda making them issue an apology. It was the show's own fault for presuming they would get complaints but didn't

One has to ask, why are they so afraid of a backlash and complaints then...... hmm.....

Sanderz · 19/03/2018 19:42

Which of course they can, but you know what I mean

Sanderz · 19/03/2018 19:41

I noticed that and I believed it!!! I was starting to think they could do truly amazing things with surgery these days

AssassinatedBeauty · 19/03/2018 19:37

Ouch, 54!

Jayceedove · 19/03/2018 19:35

The point everyone is missing though is that Paris herself said she had not been offended. And not one person complained to the show.

So this was not, as being presumed, the trans agenda making them issue an apology. It was the show's own fault for presuming they would get complaints but didn't.

The only thing Paris should have been mad about is that paper aging her by decades and saying that she is 54! I would have wanted an apology for that.

derxa · 19/03/2018 19:31

They are taking the . P.iss out of real women
One of the comments under the DM article. Anne Diamond presented the show and gave the apology. Twit.

CadyHeron · 19/03/2018 19:30

Well done, Matthew!!! If you read the article just linked, sounds like it wasn't him who apologised, and that's why he was apparently not on on Friday as he refused to apologise as "Anne has nothing to apologise for."
Brilliant!

LadyMcLadyCrisps · 19/03/2018 19:05

Well well well, I wonder if this is true? If so, I take back everything I said about MW.

A round of applause is needed here if this is factual!!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5518957/Matthew-Wright-embroiled-bitter-showdown.html

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 16/03/2018 22:43

I've decided I'm really happy with the word bigot on this one. Words can now mean what we want. Bigot means person that talks sense in this context. Gender bullshitters are soft in the head.

CadyHeron · 16/03/2018 22:36

The Wright Stuff apologised? Missed that. Really? What for?! Anne was correct, only stating facts, in context, FFS!
Really feeling uneasy about the whole not being able to state facts any more, and being labelled bigoted if you do.
Good on you derxa for ringing up.

Milliepede · 16/03/2018 22:35

@ Mclady.
It always makes me laugh when Wrighty criticises MN, yet his researchers seem to scour the boards for topics for his show.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen · 16/03/2018 22:23

I can't see what is wrong with that. P Lees looks like a boy still in that piece.

I have no idea what the apology was for.

They are apologising for gendering. It's all going totally bonkers. No one knows the rules. Honestly it is now becoming hilarious. Its like an Austin Powers movie.

IhaveChillyToes · 16/03/2018 22:02

Sorry DERXA

IhaveChillyToes · 16/03/2018 22:01

I am glad you did that DEXTRA

I was watching yesterday and today

I said to DH that I completely agreed with Anne yesterday

PL did grow up as a male

I don't understand how that fact is disputed

derxa · 16/03/2018 21:06

yes LostArt it does. Even if I feel a bit odd.