"International men's day" post

So the issue is yes male violence is a major problem - but many of the victims of it are men. So what can be done to stop that. A male death is no less worse than a woman's death regardless of the fact he was killed by another man

No body is saying that the death of a man is less bad but if all the violent women in the world turned over a new leaf it would make no significant dent in those statistics.

If all the violent men did the same violence would become an aberration.

Is it? The UK website doesn't seem that way to me- it doesn't really mention women. I've not really seen much else about it- what 'proper' things should it be focusing on?

It is a useless poster. The statistics are probably correct but fail to point out violence is almost overwhelmingly committed by men usually on men.

It is true that the group most likely to be at risk of a violent attack are young men but what needs to be addressed is why are men attacking each other? Men themselves are the cause of the problem.

On the other hand it makes no sense to lump suicide in with violence. So far as suicide there is no doubt that suicide rates are much higher for men. There are professions which are high risk and male dominated - e.g farming - solitary nature of the work and access to legal firearms but men in medicine and law have higher rates than women. That poster does nothing to even remotely suggest how to deal with this.

Someone at a refuge told me the figures for men in domestic violence are generally inflated as when the police are called for a woman who's been attacked by her loving partner, he often says 'I was defending myself -- she hit me first' and so the police have to log his complaint as well.

Also, I know lots of women who are victims of domestic violence -- they stay to try to make it better or because they've got no money or for the kids. They get it again and again.

I knew a guy whose wife had mental health issues and one day socked him one. He left the next day.

Yes, it’s very hard to get men to accept that they have to do something about toxic masculinity.

It makes me cross because its all compared to the stats for women and doesn't point out that men are also the perpetrators in the murders, violent crimes and often the dv.

“that doesnt mean I will ignore or excuse the injustices my sons face“
I think we have to be careful. Men face difficulties and challenges and are victims of crime. But do they face any collective injustice ^because they are men”? And if you think they do, who is perpetuating the injustice?

I think raising the awarenss of male victims/survivors of domestic violence is a good thing. yes women are more likely to be the victim.

some of the other stats do irritate a little though. depends on the intent behind the stats chosen.

“So the issue is yes male violence is a major problem - but many of the victims of it are men. So what can be done to stop that. A male death is no less worse than a woman's death regardless of the fact he was killed by another man.”

Absolutely. The problem is that men often seem to use statistics about violence aagaist men to try to minimize violence against women- rather than facing up to the problem as something they should be addressing.

"positioning themselves as the victim when they are also the perp seems a bit disingenuous"

thats such an odd way to look at it though - the individual who gets killed is a victim and is a separate person - who may or quite possibly may not have any power in creating the system/set of circumstances which lead to the violence. Its not the tall rich white men who are CEOs who are getting killed - its mostly poor men.

So the issue is yes male violence is a major problem - but many of the victims of it are men. So what can be done to stop that. A male death is no less worse than a woman's death regardless of the fact he was killed by another man.

We aknowledge IMD in our house like we do for IWD because I want equal rights for both my sons and daughters, I want to fight for causes that effect them both, I need to fight harder and more often for my daughters but that doesnt mean men dont suffer too, that doesnt mean I will ignore or excuse the injustices my sons face.

Some of what they claim is a flat out lie but still, positioning themselves as the victim when they are also the perp seems a bit disingenuous..
The only people men kill more often than women is men.
Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

Well but if you are man who is killed by another man I don't think that makes it all okay??

I think that there are very valid points about the particular challenges that men face.

It's mostly poor (i.e. not wealthy) men who are the cannon fodder. And the interventions needed to address these issues require specific consideration.

Fair dos. I have no problem with it at all.

There’s no way that DA stat is right for a start.

Meh, the patriarchy is bad for men too. That's what those stats say to me.

I do indeed hope they spend their "day" working to bring it down. That's cool with me.

Well the glaring fact omitted there regarding males more likely to be murdered, is that it will be men that murder them. I'm all for men highlighting their needs and wanting to raise awareness. But they won't actually name the problem.

Is it the timing that bothers you do you think? My first thought was it's in November so why post it now, second thought is it to "what about the men" just after IWD?

These are the sort of stats that MRAs like to share online, wothout reference to any sources, which unfortunately means that i automatically assume that this poster is attempting to goad feminists

It's not a competition guys. (or gals)

I said this on the last thread about this but I'll say it again here. I feel the same way about international men's day as I do about heterosexual pride day.

And no, 40% of domestic abuse victims are not men.

Richard Herring, that's the one!

It would be interesting to do this in 2 columns.

80% of homeless are men... 80% of the world's land is owned by men

70% of homicide victims are men... 90% of those incarcerated for committing violent crime are men

40% of men are victims of domestic violence... if you give equal weight to numbers of people experiencing it (and count one-off acts of self-defence as violence) rather than counting instances of violence (so repeated attacks on a woman are given the same weight in the statistics as the one occasion on which the woman snaps and punches back)*

men serve longer in prison... because they commit more serious crimes - in addition to the 90% of prisoners convicted of violence, 98% of the prisoners convicted of sex offences are men.

Anyone seeing a pattern emerging here?

*There are of course men who are genuinely the victims of domestic violence - I have had friends and relatives who were - and it is terrible and should not happen. But that 40% statistic is exaggerated.

And get him to follow Henning Whatshisname on Twitter

Richard Herring? I like that IMD exists for his tweets alone :-)

Although in fairness following Henning Wehn would be no bad thing either.

I think the reactions to this type of poster really reveal what type of feminism people support and the energy behind it.
I'm all for men fighting for their needs as I am free to for women's needs.