Susie Green

I hadn't thought about the 'little mermaid' story before but it is very apt if you consider the original not disney: the little mermaid got her legs (at some cost) but was unable to achieve what she longed for and died/turned into sea foam.

For some Christian people, Christianity is cultural. They don't pick up a bible, they don't give it much thought.

Jesus was all about love. Jesus wasn't into people having promiscuous or polygamy relationships. Jesus was all about forgiveness.

I very much doubt Jesus gave much more thought to sexuality as he doesn't mention it nor trans, he is focused on other things.

Jesus would want a child, be they gay, GNC, Autistic or trans to be loved and accepted as they were born, because God loves us all and wants us to love each other.

Those are my thoughts as a Christian. I guess like feminism, somebody will come along and tell me I am doing Christianity wrong.

Feed back from the patients I mean. Are they lying to the Drs who are in turn using the feed back as positive outcomes

That said, I do believe there is a place for medical and/or surgical intervention -when it is in the best interests of the patient and the patient has a rational understanding of a realistic outcome

I agree with this. And I know it's daft to go by edited tv and you tube clips.but are they being told the truth about the surgery. I'm not saying the Drs are intentionally lying more that in a bid to convince themselves they did the right thing that perhaps the feed back and the stats the Drs are using are not as truth ful as they should be?

With jazz for example it's all been a surprise. The lack of a penis for inversion. The use of the colon for the vagina. If the truth was told befire the first but if the chest surgery how many would still go through witg it. The sex is a huge sacrifice

Have they had their distressed relived though?

Hasn't it been said that the surgery does not reduce the suicide stats.

Well, there's the rub. Affirmation therapy - which I also consider to be religious dogma - is not helping. Dysphoric people are being led to believe that physical transition is a cure-all, when clearly it is not. Thus the follow-up figures aren't great.

That said, I do believe there is a place for medical and/or surgical intervention - when it is in the best interests of the patient and the patient has a rational understanding of a realistic outcome.

Some people are just completely homophobic.

They'd rather fit their son into the "girl" box than the "gay" box as they see it.

Pretending that your child has a birth defect can be easier to live with than examining your own homophobic attitudes.

Just write it off as an Act of God and don't look at yourself. Must be tempting for some people.

yes very similar to the RL experience of the person I know. Religion and intolerance of anything "other" is a dangerous combination I think. Any yet, ironically, it's us gender critical feminists who are accused of being "phobic" and intolerant, when we are saying let children behave anyway they want, not according to 2 very narrow, out of date stereotypes.

Eerie cross post with Flomper there!

Have they had their distressed relived though?

Hasn't it been said that the surgery does not reduce the suicide stats.

When your whole life has been fighting the battle to be accepted as a boy or girl/man woman, undergoing surgeries to change every feature reminding you of what you are, once it's all over, where do you go?

Once you can stop just how do you stop.

Like all those people who started off wanting s boob job then keep getting surgeries. Face lifts and tummy tucks and can't stop.

Yes, the religious reasons do feature in many of the narratives. My theory is that people who are not very clued about science and medicine and who have an unshakeable faith in the existence of God and the literal truth of the Bible or the Quran find it a lot easier to accept a made up medical reason for a child not conforming to gender stereotypes than accept them as they are. Their view is that girls/women behave one way, boys/men another, and this is set in stone and not to be challenged. If a child does behave differently, the religious community and the family put a lot of pressure on the parents to punish the child and force them to conform. The great fear is that the child will turn out to be a rebel, a non-believer, gay, or all three.

If the child's behaviour continues to be a concern, they get taken to a doctor. The doctor tells the parents that the child may have been born in the wrong body. The parents accept this because they see it as analogous to any other congenital problem which modern medicine can fix. Child switches over to the 'true' sex, finds it easier to conform to the stereotypes for this one, peace returns.

+1 Lang.

Terrible situation

I'm an atheist. I do not believe human beings have souls - including gendered souls. I'm a feminist. I do not believe personality traits should be acceptable in people of only one of the two biological sexes.

Therefore, I do not believe in the genderist ideology and consider it to be a religion.

I do believe that some people suffer from catastrophic body dysmorphia and that adults may need medical and/or surgical treatments to relieve severe chronic distress. These people have had their distress relieved and that is a good thing. But they have not changed sex.

And that, basically, is where I stand.

AreYouTerfEnough

I can’t understand how the father objected to his son playing with girls toys and had a problem with that, yet was okay with him changing gender. It’s a bit of a leap confused

Do you know that was my exact same thought when the person I know transitioned. But as he explained (at the time, was still known as he), his father found it easier to accept that his eldest son had a medical issue, a mistake had been made, he was "born into the wrong body" than that his son had just, naturally, been born gay. Hard for rational people to understand, but bear in mind this was an uneducated, overbearing man, with no knowledge of genetics, with very fixed views on anything "foreign" particularly homosexuals and immigrants.

I remember saying to him, why dont you live how you want and dont discuss it with him? But as he came out of adolescence he really wanted, understandably, to be out and gonest with his parents. He tried to tell them on a number of occasions that he was gay but couldnt. I was astounded a few years later when he annoynced he was going to abroad for GRS. Ironically, the father died a few months aftrr ge got back, after welcoming him baxk into the family because "a mistake had been fixed".

Yy terfs. There are plenty of women who feel FGM is the best thing for their child, that it is needed in certain environments.
They're still wrong, and the law still doesn't agree, no matter how much you could understand where their actions came from

I don't see it being any different from FGM. You remove any chance that this person will ever experience an orgasm in their life. I would never speak to my parents again if they ever did that to me.

Two MTF trans people I know also came fron homes where the mother was very religious and the father was very homophobic. One of them admits that it was "easier" to trans than to come out as gay.

There is of course along with the religion aspect, the asd and abuse aspects and the homosexuality/GNC aspects, the potential that some parents (none named in particular) have MBP.

I can’t understand how the father objected to his son playing with girls toys and had a problem with that, yet was okay with him changing gender. It’s a bit of a leap

patodp I think perhaps you should ask MN to delete your post. This kind of speculation will lead Mermaids to take legal action as they have done against posieparker.

I share all your horror at the delusion being peddled here. But we should be very careful.

God got it wrong.

I've noticed (anecdata of course - though I'd love to see actual figures!) a very large correlation between kids who trans and religious households.

I can't imagine being with a man with these antediluvian views for a start, and I can't imagine going along with this bullshit approach that made the child so unhappy. And from that point on, instead of getting the child and the family therapy to help them all cope with what he was actually like instead of what they thought he should be like, she seems to have made one wrong decision after another. I agree that there must have been a point of no return after which questioning what she had done was unthinkable.

Absolutely my views on it.

I wonder what goes through her mind when she reads things like this and the tiny little voice of reason says 'you should've told dh to fuck right off at the start and said our BOY likes playing in a tutu. Suck it up'. When she thinks 'I took my beautiful boy and had him castrated..'. However immersed she is in her own truth, the little voice is r markably persistent...

It's fine to like girlie things.

This was 20 years ago when pink and blue were not really a massive issue.

But what disturbs me most is that her son said 'God got it wrong'

My children at that age knew very little about God. Mind you they were born into a non religious house. I myself was baptised a Catholic and had no real idea of God at the age of five, other than trying my best to learn/memorise the Our Father and the Hail Mary. I had no idea what any of it meant.

There is a video clip about Susie Green laughing about the size of her child's penis and that it was not big enough to go through gender reassignment.

I think what we learn from this is that people who do bad things don't think they're bad. In her own mind, she's probably an amazing, caring parent who did the best for her own child.

Like Gasp, I wonder whether Jackie will come to regret the decision to have surgery, and I wonder what Susie Green will think then - whether she will continue to justify herself or whether she will do some serious self-reflection. I'm not holding my breath.