House of Commons event - anyone else going?

Eresh, you're right. I guess I am used to it from work etc, where I usually feel very easily in the wrong relative to men and I am keenly aware all the time that I haven't remotely a leg to stand on unless there are literally no criticisms possible.

It's how I've managed to develop a career and I guess I've internalised it because before when I expected to be treated fairly, I never was, and I was fucked over many times.

Just speaking practically that's the safest way but I suppose it's not exactly liberation.

So sick of women having to be above reproach in every single little thing before they can speak.

Perhaps people should share the details of what Paris was in prison for. It's a little bit worse. Paris Lees is a violent male.

There may well have been nuance in the talk but that becomes completely irrelevant. The only thing that will be associated with the event and those who attended is that transgender people were described as being parasites. Next week on Question Time Paris Lees will share this and people will rightly be appalled and horrified...

I wasn't there and don't know the detail but my heart sank when I heard about the camel toe prosthetics being shown. I just thought that this is arguably playing into a kind of old fashioned disgust at non-conformist behaviour and dress, which is what they are trying to accuse us of. We have many more important points to make than just "ew, look what they wear" - and that's exactly what they're trying to say we're all about.

Transphobia, to me, should rightly mean: a prejudiced mistreatment of those who do not obey old fashioned conventions about how they present, given their sex. I DO NOT want to be associated with that sort of attitude. (I know the term means all sorts of other crap in practice, now, but it is its associations with unpleasant attitudes of prejudice and disgust for the nonconformist that means it has gained such traction as an accusation)

That's Sheila Jeffreys' take on it. Anyone can read her books, she doesn't keep it a secret. It's just one angle. And I think it is a relevant one. She gave quite a similar speech at the event in York. But it was Linda Bellos who got picked on then.

And YY Datun. Autogynephilia, and the fetishism and need for other people to participate, is a big issue for women and this argument around women's spaces and roles like rape counsellor etc and the creeping legitimisation of people's right to practice their "kink" even when others do not consent is worrying.

Datun as I said, I'm not offended, but I do think it was an own goal. (And calling people parasites does comes with some serious historical and political baggage, whether we like it or not.)

We've got so much on our side, I honestly don't think we need this.

(And, as I've said before on here, I think it's OK to disagree with each other. We aren't a hivemind, and we shouldn't aspire to be one.)

You're more concerned with the term used to describe men who wear female bodysuits, masks and mimic the female, pornified camel toe, than you are about those perverted men

I'm not actually. I'm just able to see that it was an absolute GIFT to the Pink News and the TRAs. It's a complete own goal. It is also something on the border of normality that absolutely noone can relate to.

It made me cross because I could just FEEL the press reports. So ill thought out.

If there was an actually Pink News person there, them they were remarkably restrained in not shouting out when the speakers were "literally killing them

That's what I was thinking! I wonder if to keep up their cover they clapped and cheered along with the rest, or just sat there with a face of thunder and a cats bum mouth

I'm sorry but showing that suit and calling transpeople parasites was a fucking offensive and idiotic thing to do.

And this is the constant subversion, which I find fucking offensive.

You're more concerned with the term used to describe men who wear female bodysuits, masks and mimic the female, pornified camel toe, than you are about those perverted men.

More offended by the term used, rather than the fact that the government are about to legislate to legitimise this exact fetish.

More concerned about a provocative word, than legalising autogynephilia.

Good to know exactly where your loyalties lie.

This issue is rapidly degenerating into extremes - if TRAs are extreme right and the activists at the HOC are extreme left, then I am centre left.

I thought the "parasites" description was a terrible idea too, Tralalee (I thought it was an obvious own goal, as we know that we are constantly being scrutinised, plus I really dislike any description of anyone - including people whose politics and actions I am utterly opposed to - as insects, as it comes with political baggage), but I wasn't offended by it, as such. It's been taken out of context, but we should be self-aware enough to know that things like this will be taken out of context.

I'm sorry but showing that suit and calling transpeople parasites was a fucking offensive and idiotic thing to do.

I think I've reached peak Mumsnet over the trans issue.

Giuliana has played/is playing a key role in spreading the idea that those who met are part of a hate group. This twitter account has been relentless in seeking out the very worst of comments, sometimes editing and often taking tweets out of context to build the 'proof' of extreme transphobia and hatred. Her 'evidence' has been seen & shared by representatives from all of the main political parties/Stonewall/Mermaids etc- I believe its telling that hers was the tweet used by Maria Miller. Her account (and a few others) have consistently goaded and sought reactions whilst calmer voices then take the evidence and narrative she collates forward.
Reading the collated comments from Guiliana would without doubt add to a lot of people's worries and distress as they do create the impression of women & groups filled with hatred. As people express their distress, their comments have also being collated 'proving' the devastating effects of transphobia and adding weight to TRA claims.
The Pink News article has similarly being spread far and wide and with it, the belief that a group in Parliament have described people who are transgender as parasites. That is a massive deal and hugely distressing!
The question I would ask though is who is creating and amplifying the hate speech and to what ends?

Giuliana is a man, not a she. A trans-identified male.

I should add that I completely agree with all that was said and wish I was able to speak out like this! And it definitely does need to be said, even if it’s just to give people like me hope that things will get better

"Giuliana" appears to be somewhat hard of thinking, and I can't help wondering what skin she has in this game

The event sounds like it was fabulous.

I was there yesterday. It really was amazing. Just brilliant to have a meeting like that, about free speech and where we speak the truth, in the very heart of a place of democracy and free speech. It's very symbolic.

All the speakers were great, although I agree with what some have said about some of the stuff being a bit radical. In some ways it was a bit preaching to the choir. Not a bad thing at all but we need to convince the general public.

Posie Parker gave a brilliant speech. Really admire her and she got a standing ovation.

Just an amazing night.

I'm preparing myself for twitter

Sorry posted when I was only on the first page. Glad it all went fine. I was kind of hoping for some TRAs (and their human shields of course) to turn up

Fucking hell, Giuliana is going tonto on twitter

I think that is the very definition of a mantrum.

Really wish I could go to this. Have fun everyone.

Bet the TRAs really wish they had just left it alone and the event was at Milwall instead

Fucking hell, Giuliana is going tonto on twitter

Possibly encouraging riots..

twitter.com/Giuliana_London/status/974308716316151809

Wouldn't that go down well..a group of masked protestors rioting at HOC screaming about how women should not be able to talk about law changes that affect the, and that women can have dicks. Can just imagine it..

Thanks hipster.