Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

Sorry @TheGrumpySquirrel, cross-post! I do fundamentally agree with you too and hope that came across in my second post!

Well, @liltingleaf how do you suggest we make the role more valued then?

By not accusing women who take the role as being anti feminist for 'supporting and perpetuating the patriarchal structure', for a start. This demonises these women.

By celebrating the role. By women supporting those who take on this role. By women in power showing that they value this role by recognising and respecting women who have taken on this role and employing them in positions of power. If men see this role respected and valued they will have to follow suit.

Women need to support each other, accept and respect women who have made different life choices. Not criticise them in order to vindicate the different choices they have made.

so many of today's instamummy type posts are attempts to weave a bit more value into the sahm position. Hand sewn vintage clothes/ beeswax crayons/ forest school. It's all brilliant. No doubt little geniuses will be released into the world. But will not change your precarious financial position as a sahm one bit.

@TheGrumpySquirrel I agree with you that we need to change the way childcare is valued and encourage more men into doing this but as with any societal issue I don't think individuals can be the ones to change this. Individual women forcing themselves into a job they may find meaningless when they find childcare much more fulfilling is not the answer. The answer must come from government. Let's look at countries who are doing better on gender equality and campaign for similar policies. I'm thinking of things like universal free or heavily subsidised childcare, much longer and better paid parental leave that isn't just for the mother, and a set amount of paternity leave of several months that new fathers MUST take otherwise they lose it.

@SlothSlothSloth totally agree with everything you said

"Disapproving of the choice" - I didn't say I disapproved, I said I don't think it's a particularly feminist thing to do as you are going along with stereotypical gender roles and falling back to the default patriarchal set up.

in an ideal world, a sahp would have equal status and choices

Back in the real world: we live in a capitalist society (like it or not), and money and power (choices, freedom, status) are intricately entangled. It’s a lot easier to be independent if you are working.

Maybe my view is tainted by having been in a bad marriage, and knowing that my working (albeit part time) is what gave me the freedom to eventually escape however

Well, @liltingleaf how do you suggest we make the role more valued then? I think you need to force (structurally) more men into equal child rearing roles. Otherwise it won't happen.

That's exactly my point. It is tough for women no matter what you earn. I'm the higher earner to the point where I have much less of an option to quit, as we would be pretty significantly worse off. That just means that the hurdle to me (or you) quitting is/was much higher. When there is a low hurdle - I can imagine plenty of women think fuck this shit , immediately on return from maternity leave. Or don't bother going back as they know it'll be too hard and it isn't worth it for their household and family. That's not their fault, it's the way society and workplaces are set up, but equally it doesn't mean that the decision to be a SAHM is a "feminist" one, in my opinion.

Not by "choosing" to be SAHMs. I appreciate this is simplistic and I've heard the argument that why should women make their own lives harder in order to to be trail blazers or more "feminist".

I disagree. Disapproving of the choice to become a SAHP devalues the role. Which is a large part of the problem. If the role were valued it would be easier to return to work and the workplace would be more equal as child rearing would be respected rendering people who have done / do the role more employable. Added to this more men would choose the role leaving more paid positions free for women to fill.

Raising children is important! Surely the single most important thing in the world. Certainly far, far more important than whatever generic office job many women will end up taking as they feel obliged to work outside the home. The devaluing of child rearing pains me so much.

However, I do think modeling the woman-at-home/man-at-work set-up to children is not ideal. We know this set-up massively screws over a lot of women in the end, even if it works for a while.

I think the ideal situation would be that both parents work less and share the child rearing and housework burden equally. In the uk this isn't a viable option for most, but in some Scandinavian countries with much better state-funded childcare and parental leave I think this situation is fairly common (willing to be corrected on this as I don't know the stats, but this is the impression I get based on anecdotal evidence from Swedish and Norwegian friends!).

This is what we should be aiming towards as a society, but in the meantime, don't beat yourself up about the concessions you have to make to the system. So long as you enjoy your life and it's clear to your kids that your contribution is as important as your DH's, I'm sure you're doing a better job of raising feminist kids than most!

Eve if you are not the the lower earning it is sometimes hard to stay and work - I'm pretty tough but in my case I just wasn't tough enough to stick it out. I went back to work still BF-Ing twins. I was shattered physically. Childcare options were diabolical -it was not working out. I had a boss who looked at his watch every time I arrived and left (I was doing my hours, just not 14 hour days like him).
H had a better work situation.

But so many things to consider.
Actually rather hard to just 'get a part time job' or 'resume a career' after a period as a SAHM, even after a short time.

I do think that society is changing slowly but it's so much easier to go down the slippery slope if you are the lower earning partner, once you've had kids. Ideally both parents would go part time but you rarely see that, almost as rare as SAHDs

And men too, men who want a better future for their daughters and who actively will make career sacrifices to go part time for example or take shared parental leave.

Oh and child rearing would be valued if more men did it. How do we make that happen? By removing structural barriers to women earning the same or more than men (for example). And how do we do that? Not by "choosing" to be SAHMs. I appreciate this is simplistic and I've heard the argument that why should women make their own lives harder in order to to be trail blazers or more "feminist". But it explains why although I understand why women often make the decision to stay home, I don't believe it's a feminist one. It wasn't until my 30s that I realised as a working woman just exactly WHY it would so much easier to go down the path of least resistance and why so many women think "fuck leaning in, it's better for my family if I don't". But we do need a changing tide and we do need women willing to blaze the trail.

Exactly - most women who choose to sah are in a huge mess if the relationship breaks down.

Of course SAHM can be feminists.

I sort of get Bluntness' opinion that it's difficult to be taken seriously if a person has no experience of a particular situation. As a SAHP I wasn't particularly interested in non SAHP's criticisms of SAHPing. Or the belittlement of traditional 'women's' work. However SAHPs almost always have some experience of the workplace and are therefore entitled to an opinion, surely? SAHP often also have experience of combining work with caring responsibilities. Plenty of people SAH when childcare for the second child becomes prohibitively expensive.

I actually think it is anti feminist and counterproductive to devalue traditional female (stereotyped) roles

Completely agree.

Since you ask I'd say it was a very non-feminist decision. To be financially dependant as an adult on another adult and a man at that. And it is not a role model I'd want for my children. Daddy earning the money and Mummy doing the cleaning and the childcare. But each to their own and call yourself what you like.

@thebewilderness, so true

The same society that benefits from her uncompensated work provides little in the way of assistance should the man fail in his obligations.

So many women here with such unwavering faith in men .
Where does it come from?

Grumpysquirrel -the trouble is most of society doesn't value the work we do because women are just not that important. Not as important as men anyway.

I work very very part-time. I don't consider in any way that i live off my H''s money. (Apart from what he inherited) every penny that comes into our possession belongs equally to both of us. And he sees it like that as well.
I never set out to attract a rich man. In fact I earned more than H when we met.
I believed I was making a choice as a feminist when I gave up my proper career to look after the kids.
But I do realise that I am a slave of the system and if it hadn't been so patriarchal in the way it its set up we would both be working part time (which we did try before I gave up) and equally contributing to child rearing and domestic stuff. In fact my kids would also be better off with that set up..