Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

"Justify your decision all you like but don't try to tell me that women are "just wired" to be sahms rather than have careers"

This is exactly the truth though. Only a few weeks ago there was some research published showing that pregnancy hormones rewire the brain to respond better to social cues. And when my baby cries my boobs leak milk. That's biology for you!

" I do think that this causes a bond to develop between mother and child that can create an urge in the woman to want to stay at home and raise their children"

This is the kind of sexist bull shit that really annoys me. Justify your decision all you like but don't try to tell me that women are "just wired" to be sahms rather than have careers

" I don’t believe “childcare” is as invested in my children, 2 of whom have additional needs, as their parents are."

This is by far the main reason I wouldn't go back to work even if we could afford childcare. Even the best childminder won't love my DC or provide the same level of one-on-one attention.

saying something that is done by qualified childcare providers can also be done by basically anyone who just happens to have a child. And not even for any direct pay.

This statement devalues parents and the parental bond. By implying we need 'qualified' people to rear our children for us. Sounds a bit state controlly to me...

To be honest I don't see how choosing to be a SAHM is upping the value of childcare within society. If anything it's devaluing it by saying something that is done by qualified childcare providers can also be done by basically anyone who just happens to have a child. And not even for any direct pay.

Wage slave or unpaid stay at home parent. Because as long as working practices are not conducive to family life we are all exploited. Yes, it is possible to do both but it is bloody hard. It is not particularly desirable. Something has got to give

The wage slave reference is about annoying. But I do agree with you. We have a long hours culture. I certainly struggle juggling long hours and two small kids.

OP I agree with you 100%. Those who fail to value SAHM work are buying into the lie that capitalist patriarchy has always told us, that only monetised man’s work is of value and worth reporting on

I think my taxes are worth as much as my partners (he’s a bloke).
I’m just not sure what the alternative is to the capitalist society. At the moment the system is sort of (ish) working. If you earn well you fund your own childcare, if you earn less you get tax credits.
I just can’t envisage a system where the state pays you a full time wage to look after your own kids.

they would cope, they would juggle, they would leave the office slightly earlier and set a healthier tone for all their staff. Productivity might even improve (God knows the UK is not known for its productivity despite the long working hours). Try it, you might be surprised, they won’t get fired and they might even get kudos for demonstrating their “diversity and inclusivity”.

This wouldn't necessarily happen. They just would be competing against single people, others with family members who stay at home to care for young children or those with adult children.

What we need is tighter legalisation to ensure working practices are family friendly.

It doesn't matter what side of it you are coming from, working or being a stay at home parent, we all all victims of a patriarchal capitalist society. This is because working practices demand the job, career advancement is the top priority, sole focus, over family.

However why do we earn money? Personally I think to afford myself, my spouse and my children a good quality of life. So I can support other members of my family and friends too.

There is no choice which is more feminist or radically feminist. Wage slave or unpaid stay at home parent. Because as long as working practices are not conducive to family life we are all exploited. Yes, it is possible to do both but it is bloody hard. It is not particularly desirable. Something has got to give.

Someone mentioned above that mothers form more of a bond with children and hence feel strongly that they would prefer to stay at home (I paraphrase). I think this is doing fathers a disservice. Most men I know would, if given the real choice, prefer to spend more time at home with their children too. Probably not 100% of their time though. It is rare that I feel sorry for men but I think when it comes to SAH options men still have very few, and society expects them to work full time regardless of children.
Those wives of working men who commented tnat their husbands can only do their big jobs with the support of a facilitator at home, frankly I think this is bollox. If you withdrew your 24x7 domestic support, guess what, they would cope, they would juggle, they would leave the office slightly earlier and set a healthier tone for all their staff. Productivity might even improve (God knows the UK is not known for its productivity despite the long working hours). Try it, you might be surprised, they won’t get fired and they might even get kudos for demonstrating their “diversity and inclusivity”.

accept that others have different live circumstances and my own feminist focus is on a much more part time working week for all split between men and women. Change the entire structure of the working week to allow parents to easily split parenting and working outside the home rather than one parent at home, one working. This would also facilitate other caring roles to be done by families who want that.

when the joint combined salary will cover childcare the implication is that if you can afford it then childcare should be used.

You see and this is going to be a tetchy one, I don’t believe “childcare” is as invested in my children, 2 of whom have additional needs, as their parents are. The notion of valuing other women, because childcare is almost always other underpaid and undervalued women, to spend the lions share of waking hours influencing and guiding my children, strikes me as an entirely capitalist idea and not particularly feminist either imho.

We are in the absolute minority situation that I as the higher earner and DH who has a longstanding client list and endless ability to foot between roles has been able to go PT and take over the SAHP role. This should facilitate me to pontificate over other people’s lives all I want from a rad feminist perspective but I’d rather not because I know not everyone can have our set up. So I’d rather

The ability to claim to be able to support yourself independently is hugely dependent on your salary and the local economy.

The highest salary I earned was just over fifty grand a year - working full time in a senior teaching leadership role. But I was still ‘supported’ by my spouse because we lived in inner London. In London I was nobody economically; move to the north-east and I would be a high earner.

Feminism is geographically and economically contingent perhaps?

I also raise an eyebrow when MNers describe themselves as independent/feminist/reliant on no one when it is clear from the description of their job that they probably are the recipients of tax credits. This is a good thing for children, of course, but it doesn’t remove some of the structural inequality within society.

"childcare is not a valued job in monetary terms"

‘I disagree. It is valued, but the market will only sustain a certain price before a lot of customers are priced out. People have to make a profit by going out to work. Well paid childminders would have few customers who could afford to pay them.‘

I work in childcare. I earn just above minimum wage. My supervisor earns £1.00 more per hour than me. We work 16 hours a week. The only childcare workers that can get full time hours are the ones who work in day nursery’s, and they are all on minimum wage (again the supervisor will earn only slightly more). I’m in Northern Ireland though, not sure if wages are different in the rest of the UK.

It’s shit. I do my job because I love working with children and families. Do I feel valued by society, no not at all. If I could go back in time, I would not choose to work in childcare. The money and prospects are crap. None of us feel respected by society. Considering the training we do and the amount of responsibility we have, we should be earning a lot more than minimum wage. But it is ‘women’s work’ and I can’t see that opinion changing anytime soon. Once my youngest DD starts school I will look to retrain in another field.

So not answering the OPs question, but just giving my 2 cents on whether childcare workers are valued.

No, you're right op, you didn't say that, my apologies, in fact your post was very balanced.

I suspect deep down I'm quite a radical feminist. So I believe that women who have the option and ability to work but chose to stay home and raise the kids are really just perpetuating the myth that men are supreme in socirety, very few men would even consider it as a voluntary choice.

I simply hate the thought process that in some way it's a woman's role, or it's woman's work and I won't support that view. I don't see it as a feminist choice that if you can work you don't. I understand that's controversial, but that's i suspect where I'm at.

OP I agree with you 100%. Those who fail to value SAHM work are buying into the lie that capitalist patriarchy has always told us, that only monetised man’s work is of value and worth reporting on.

Of course it makes it tricky for SAHMs because they are missing out on career advancement not to mention intellectual stimulation but this is because the current nature of capitalism has changed the working model from the old one of men and women working side by side in a home business where production was compatible with childcare, thereby enabling mothers to engage productively and care for their children at the same time.

To the system we have today where childcare and production are separated forcing mothers to choose between work or home.

It is entirely natural to want to look after your children. It is one of the many things women have evolved to do. And it’s a good job they have else we’d all be dead. The problem is making sure we don’t lose out on the other stuff too.

Op, I continue to disagree with you,

Firstly most women don't take "time out" past maternity leave, in fact stay at home mums is the overwhelming minority, less than 20 percent, and we are not talking about women who take " time out" we are talking about stay at home parents and whether they are rad fem on the subject of working mothers, I maintain no.

As for your husband, as much as you wish to back track, it was indeed your first defence, when I said you were not rad fem on this isolated issue you immediately responded with "but my husband values me".

I specifically stated you could be rad fem about being home, I stated you were not on the subject of working.

Although you state your husband values you, nearly every single time you post it's about value of your role as a stay at home parent, the validation you need, yet I have never disputed this, not once, I simply stated you were not a rad fem on the subject of working mothers, you were a liberal.

Does this mean only exited women can talk about the dangers of prostitution? Or that only FGM survivors can promote information on the sickening genital violence inflicted on women around the world?

I didn't say she couldn't talk about it, she can talk about it all day long, but in no planet will her views carry more weight than the women who have experienced prostitution or FGM. Just like the op v the working mother.

No matter how many stay at home mums on this thread , who are there purely through choice, shout about how valid their opinion is on the complexity of being a working mum and raising kids. I will always take the opinion that the woman who has done it is the one whose opinion carries the most weight and the opinion I want to hear.

It doesn't bother me all the shouting about how radically feminist they are on the subject of working mothers, whilst then only talking about how the fact they personally stay home and wish validation, with the only opinion cast on the working mother is we don't raise our own kids. Very feminist.

What bothers me is the sexist shite being spoken, things like, women value low paid work, it's women's work to raise the kids...is it fuck.

And my personal favourite, that when I said I was at a work event and going to a dinner, someone assumed I'd be in a cocktail dress. Cos yeah, that's what we do, if we are women in a professional environment, we don cocktails dresses and be decorative. Whilst standing accused by non working women of not raising our own children.

Being a SAHM is the the most female feminine feminist thing you can do. Be proud of that and let no one tell you otherwise.

Trailing spouse currently not working due to this. I am living off DH's money and he is living off my time. He couldn't have taken this overseas job without me giving up my job. He couldn't travel around the world and work as much as he needs to without knowing I would always be there for DC. I need his money to pay the bills and he needs my time to earn the money in the first place.

"Are you a SAHM because..."

All of those reasons. I'm the mother, I carried my child, I make milk and my baby recognises my smell and my voice. I'm better at parenting, perhaps partly due to biology and hormones. And DH earns more, perhaps due to societal expectations.

@PencilsInSpace Childcare workers are poorly paid and yet childcare is still unaffordable for many? Because workers have to significantly out-earn childminders (factoring in tax, transport, lunches, etc) to make it worth working. Unfortunately many workers are just as poorly paid as childminders, making childcare unaffordable. Greater tax breaks for childcare would allow more parents to work.

My DH (who is definitely not a radical feminist) is of the clear view that child rearing has to be made more attractive, both through society and government support and then more men will want to do it. So basically it is seen as a bit of a shitty dull job of little value and therefore men don't want it.