Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

On another positive note (along with shared leave) lots of companies are introducing “return-ships” which are perfectly designed to target people who’ve taken time out for family reasons. In these cases have been a SAHM is definitely not an issue on one’s CV..

@liltingleaf I agree and in my earlier posts I said I totally understand why so many women opt out. I'd like to see not only a bit of "positive discrimination " to offset the difficulties of returning to work after a break or balancing family responsibilities but also more policies actually placing the responsibility on men to share the domestic/family work and career sacrifices for the greater good of a more equal society and more equal opportunities and choices for women.

User I agree and I am really glad the discussion has been constructive

But making life bloody difficult, practically impossible in some cases, for yourself doesn't advance feminism. Tbh in those circumstances I'd be surprised anyone had any fight left.

Change the ideology first. The first step is women in power supporting women with very little. A bit of positive discrimination to even up the career disadvantages of some time being spent being a SAHP.

A lot of these pressures are less obvious and I'm trying to highlight the problems with "choice feminism"

Okay - I see. I guess I'm trying to make the point that male socialisation plays a massive role too - they aren't expected to take on this role, they don't grow up considering kids/career (and women don't grow up expecting to have to be the main breadwinner). I think it's really really hard for people to go against the grain, harder than people think in theory.

I have asked my dh before and he would bloody love to be a sahp. Much nicer than working in both our opinions. But it means nothing because preference depends on what your career is and what your personality is like.

"My DH doesn't want to be a SAHD, it's not a financial thing. He just doesn't have the same desire to do it and believe it or not, thinks that it's a harder role on a day to day basis than his job. He loves the kids and would like more time with them but not be a SAHD"

This proves nothing. I feel like your DH, I would not like it. But I'm female. I don't think it's to do with biology.

"Here’s a test, those of you who are SAHMs, ask your partner if they would swap roles with you if your income and future earning prospects exactly matched theirs."

I earn over 3x what my husband does. He still feels entitled to his own fulfilling career, even if that is "worse" for our family unit, on balance, than him SAH. Who am I to tell him he should just quit and do the optimal thing for the family? But women make this type of sacrifice all the time. Therein the difference in socialisation and expectations.

I do think that change is coming - albeit very slowly - with the likes of shared maternity/paternity leave. Women have to be prepared to “share” it though!
In some ways it’s a self fulfilling prophecy at the moment, women earn less at and around the child bearing years because your career can’t advance while you’re on mat leave, while men often have a boom at the very same time because they have, for even just one year, full time support at home. And they are perceived to be more dedicated to work precisely because they have become a father/sole breadwinner. Equal and opposite to what happens to working mothers. Hence it becomes a slippery slope and easy for a couple to agree than the male career is worth focusing on to the detriment of the woman’s career. Which could be 40-50 years long -it’s a marathon not a sprint and some dip in earnings for a few years shouldn’t be the sole consideration.

You're missing my point. It isn't about devaluing SAH or criticising women. If we don't make real changes to encourage men to take up that role too then all we are doing is making women feel better about the fact that they SAH and changing nothing.

Nothing changes because the SAH role is not valued enough. Women are worried about telling future employers they have been a SAHP. If this role were valued, it would be a plus, like volunteering. If the SAHP role were truly valued, employers would be doing all they could to encourage candidates into working for them who had done this. There would be more family friendly working practices.

Yes, make everyone feel better about the SAHP role. That way when people do want to return to work the transition is much more straightforward. Changing a pervasive ideology is the beginning of actual change.

FWIW I had a SAHM. It put me off entirely - seeing the way life worked out for her, the missed career for someone of her qualifications, and the imbalance of power in her relationship (and even her later relationships because she never learned a different way to be), no pension of her own.
So the role model thing I am not sure it works the way people think! I have friends with high powered business women mothers who became SAH because they felt they missed their mums as kids.

Grumpy

Yes, it was only years later coming on here when I realised that I had been lucky, and it was so different to how many people start out and continue today.
I guess we are all different.
what I do find comforting is that dd doesn't want to be a sahm and has a career all planned.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a sahm, but agree to a certain extent that if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.
If somebody levelled this at me, I couldn't argue.

"At a macro level though, I do think it it does matter (hugely) that talented women are opting out of the workforce. Opting out of decision making and leadership. "

Exactly

User I see your point however I'm very uncomfortable encouraging women to go back to the traditional gender roles we fought so hard to shake off in the past. I'd be much more comfortable if fathers were somehow incentivised to share this work.

"If a woman over the road chooses to stay home with her baby it doesn't impact upon me."

I agree that the action of this 1 person doesn't impact you. But the majority of fathers working ft and the majority of mothers working PT or SAH (which is the situation!) DOES impact the way that women are seen at work and in society. So that is why I will continue to moan about it as a feminist issue which perpetuates stereotypes and disadvantages all women.

@MistressDeeCee if it's such a free choice why are the vast majority of sahp women? I don't buy it sorry.

@gillybeanz it sounds like you had a great setup with flexibility and sharing of responsibilities. Unfortunately not the case for most people

"In my eyes me being a SAHM is defying what is the norm in our still patriarchal society "

I would argue it's going exactly along with the traditional patriarchal norms. Hard to see how anyone can argue otherwise.

"I can see though that of you reject that biological argument and think that my desire to stay at home has come from the socialisation etc associated with living on a patriarchal society then I can see how choosing to be a SAHM is not feminist at all."

Yes this is where we disagree user. I'm glad we understand each other though!

"Men don’t necessarily not want to be a SAHP, but they are also socialised and role modelled to grow up and earn a living. They have less choice than women in this aspect of life."

I think that women have the other side of the coin though. Most don't earn enough of a living (thanks to their socialisation and upbringing in our society and workplace sexism) relative to their male partner to give them the option to be the bread winner. So the choice that most women have is either SAH or work but in a secondary capacity to the husband and all the compromises and disadvantages that entails.

It was a biological decision for me.
I wasn't able to leave my dc with childminders, I just couldn't do it.
I saw it as my job to look after my own dc and gave up an established career to do it.