Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

The assumption that the SAHP role involves no skills which could translate into the workplace is derogatory.

It is this assumption that has the potential to cause the most economic disadvantage to people who have spent some time as a SAHP.

The first step would be to be less derogatory of SAHPs in their rhetoric

I’m not convinced there has been all that much degradation of the sahp role. People have pointed out the difficulties of being a sahp (reliant on your partners income). And that it can be hard to get back into the workforce (which it can).

What would that look like? What practical thing do you want to change so that feminists value sahp?

The first step would be to be less derogatory of SAHPs in their rhetoric.

Quite, how utterly dismissive of these women you are. This is not feminism.

Women who are SAHPs obviously do have these skills. How do you think these women, a large amount who would have been described as 'housewives' propped up the country during WW2?

Feminists start to value SAHPs

What would that look like? What practical thing do you want to change so that feminists value sahp?

Seriously having DC and being a SAHP doesnt mean you are skilled as a carer,nurse etc and that your "budgeting skills" translate into any type of skill.
Its utterly cringeworthy and patronising to suggest this.
You may however have a vocation for care work and thats fine.
WOHP manage their households,finances,cook,clean and look after their DC for the hours they are not at work.
Its called LIFE !😂

What practical steps do you suggest so that sahp are valued more?

Feminists start to value SAHPs. Especially feminists who are already in positions of power. For feminist ideologies to become more embedded within society people claiming to be feminists shouldn't serve to alienate a whole sector of women.

I just don’t get how you “value” the role of a sahp in a capitalist society.

Is feminism concerned with how to be deemed valuable in terms of a patriarchal capitalist society? Surely feminism seeks to challenge paternalistic capitalist ideologies.

Added to this taking the lions share of responsibility for running a household involves time management and budgeting skills. If the SAHP also spent time doing any home / garden redesign or renovation these skills can also apply to paid employment

Well these skills aren’t exclusive to sahp.

You are of course right being a parent does give you experience in a caring capacity. Which is pretty poorly paid.
I agree with you stereotypically female jobs need to be valued more highly. I just don’t get how you “value” the role of a sahp in a capitalist society.
You don’t get paid for looking after your own kids (or cleaning your own house, or doing your own gardening etc etc).

What practical steps do you suggest so that sahp are valued more?

liltingleaf perhaps I'm being dense but I just can't imagine a way in which being a SAHP could be valued by employers. I can see how society could and should value child-rearing and care work - certainly from the perspective of more fair pay for work in those sectors and government/social.financial support for people taking on those roles voluntarily - but I don't understand how that value would translate to the working world. Is there a comparison you could make?

This is disappointing but entirely indicative of the low status that is assigned to traditionally (stereotypically) female roles.

Your post, Rat, even indicates one area of work staying home to rear children (singlehandedly for much of the time) would give someone skills which would translate into paid employment. That is 'care work'. Another area would be to work with children in some capacity. They might also have gained experience of disabilities and SENs if their family is affected by them. Added to this taking the lions share of responsibility for running a household involves time management and budgeting skills. If the SAHP also spent time doing any home / garden redesign or renovation these skills can also apply to paid employment. Hospitality and catering might also be relevant. A SAHP might also take up a hobby such as Yoga which might lead into a career. This is regardless of any skills and qualifications a SAHP may already have before having children.

I don't know what industry you are referring to when you say no skills a SAHP might acquire during their spent as a SAHP would be a benefit to careers in that sector but it is terribly shortsighted and rather insulting.

lord that is exactly how DH and I work.
I will get home at 6
He finishes at 12 today and will do the cleaning and cook dinner -Hurrah !
How patronising to say women dont grow up expecting to be the breadwinner
Seriously Ive supported myself financially my whole adult life and no doing so has never crossed my mind .

"I would love to see decent paternity leave for men (paid at 90%). "

My DH was unable to take any paternity leave because while he's legally entitled to it, he'd only be paid statutory paternity pay of £140 per week, and we couldn't afford to live on that. When I ended up having an emergency c-section and needed support because I was physically incapacitated, he had to take a few days paid holiday. And even then his employer complained that it was inconvenient because it happened at a busy time and delayed his work. There's no way he would have got away with being allowed to take more than a week or two under any circumstances. So it's not just women who suffer from non-family-friendly policies in the workplace.

To me, when it comes to parenting, childcare and home organisation is less about the exact dimensions of the task split and more about the level of discussion and ethos behind it.

My parents had a rule that whoever was home from work first did the bulk of the childcare and chores. When I was little my dad did all of the cooking and cleaning because he finished work early, two hours before my mum, and he had lots of spare time. When I was 7, my mum changed jobs and she started finishing earlier so she started doing most of it.

If you just looked at my mum in isolation when I was, say, 8, you'd have found a woman who was doing most of the childcare and household work, and therefore it may seem sexist. But that was only happening because of circumstances which had been pre-agreed by two equal adults.

and women don't grow up expecting to have to be the main breadwinner

Why not? Why is this just taken as a given?

I never expected to be in a situation where I would depend on some one else's income and never have been.

I don't think SAHMing is an inherently unfeminist choice.

I agree with the pp about the difficulty in translation of SAHPing into something employers would value. Just can't see it. It's different to volunteering in the industry.

The first step is women in power supporting women with very little. A bit of positive discrimination to even up the career disadvantages of some time being spent being a SAHP.

I do this. I have a really high level of part time and flexible working parents in my team.

I don't think paid paternity will make much difference. I know several couples expecting babies and none of the men are taking more than 2 weeks off because their partners refuse to share

I get what you are saying bluntness and gilly

I think you are right shared leave is tricky as women don’t want to give up “their” leave. This would be completely separate paternal leave, paid at 90% of a mans salary.

The woman doesn’t lose her leave and the couple (or the man) can afford it.

Nothing changes because the SAH role is not valued enough. Women are worried about telling future employers they have been a SAHP. If this role were valued, it would be a plus, like volunteering. If the SAHP role were truly valued, employers would be doing all they could to encourage candidates into working for them who had done this. There would be more family friendly working practices.

liltingleaf perhaps I'm being dense but I just can't imagine a way in which being a SAHP could be valued by employers. I can see how society could and should value child-rearing and care work - certainly from the perspective of more fair pay for work in those sectors and government/social.financial support for people taking on those roles voluntarily - but I don't understand how that value would translate to the working world. Is there a comparison you could make?

I for one know in my industry something like volunteering, no matter how worthy the cause, wouldn't mean a damn thing to employers in comparison to that time spent working in our industry. Surely it will never compete with the same time spent in the office, which men continue to win out on. They aren't going to give that up for all the same reasons women are disadvantaged by it right now, no matter how "valuable" the alternative.

I don't think it would, I think it would only make a difference when the woman gives up because she has to. It won't make a difference when the woman gives up because that's exactly what she wants. In that cSe they don't want to be forced to go back to work.

I would love to see decent paternity leave for men (paid at 90%). To be taken preferably at the end of the mother’s maternity leave. It would help women get back to work and possibly redress the imbalance of it mostly being women who are primary carers.

^^ This is a very good idea. I think just like maternity leave is expected, say 3 months paternity leave taken at the end of maternity leave paid at 90% would make a very big different.

I don't think paid paternity will make much difference.
I know several couples expecting babies and none of the men are taking more than 2 weeks off because their partners refuse to share.
In every case they want the full year off, because they feel they deserve it for carrying and nurturing the baby.
Maybe women who are career driven will want to go back to work and put their foot down with their partners, but would you really want to share mat leave if you had a min wage job with poor conditions?

Paid paternity leave would only partially resolve the issue. Most men take little to no time off, not even a couple of weeks, even when they can well afford it and have the option. In addition most women who proactively chose to give up are not wishing their husband would give up instead of them so they could work.They don't want this option at all. They want it to be them who doesn't have to work.

I really don't see this as something that will change the dynamics of stay at home parents when it's a proactive choice.

Yes properly paid paternity leave would help a lot - and this wouldn't penalise families lilting. That way there would be more real options. As it stands SPL is only statutory pay.

I'd actually prefer more policies aimed at companies to ensure they have family friendly working practices and have specific schemes geared towards employing parents returning to work after having children

That sounds like a great idea.

I would love to see decent paternity leave for men (paid at 90%). To be taken preferably at the end of the mother’s maternity leave. It would help women get back to work and possibly redress the imbalance of it mostly being women who are primary carers.

more policies actually placing the responsibility on men to share the domestic/family work and career sacrifices for the greater good of a more equal society and more equal opportunities and choices for women.

I'd actually prefer more policies aimed at companies to ensure they have family friendly working practices and have specific schemes geared towards employing parents returning to work after having children.

If the legislation instead forced men to take a career break, at the moment, as things stand lots of families would lose a significant amount of income as the man earns the greater salary. That would be unfair and penalise SAHMs more.