Transgender question

I get that women here don't seem sweet, accommodating and nice. But those are the qualities that sleep-walked us into this.

Always good to hear your perspective, Truscum.

I think that people are possibly frustrated because had you actually bothered to read other threads (as you say you intend to) you probably would not have needed to start this thread. I.e. if you genuinely want to know the answer to your question, stop being lazy and actually do some really easy research.

It's a shame if this thread makes you leave MN, I personally think it's a fantastically supportive place for parents (with the exception of AIBU) on a huge number of issues.

One of many reasons: I don't think rape victims should have to be examined or counselled by individuals possessing a cock and balls, and should be able to say so without being called bigot and silenced. Because biology matters.

I hesitated over writing 'your DH', OP. On the grounds that you may not have one.

But it's really shorthand for how ludicrous the situation is. Which was the point of the remark.

I know I'll probably get more nastiness for this but I don't think Mumsnet 'feminists' are very feminist. From what I've seen so far it's just groups of woman being rude to other groups of woman.

Well yes, women are allowed to be rude. And when exchanges get heated, it's quite usual in fact. Although generally, on the feminist board, it's a lot less rude than on, say, AIBU.

But you asked Why is everyone on Mumsnet seemingly obsessed with talking about transgender people?

Maybe read the links, and you will understand why it gets so heated.

OP what you don't realise is how many people start up this exact thread just to be goady - truly I have lost count. So people get a little weary/cynical. I apologised to you because I could see from your posting history that you had not been here long and yes, I probably would have been ruder to someone my age who still cannot use the search function There are many patient women on here who have spent considerable time explaining the issues. It just seems a bit lazy expecting them to repeat themselves.

Yup.

Disingenuous fuckwit it twas.

Shame.

OP. I am an advocate for trans people. My job involves working with schools to help ensure that young trans people’s needs are met.
This role also involves being an advocate for young people with a range of needs, such as young people who have been sexually abused.
Schools are currently under a lot of pressure to prioritise support for trans people over others who may have conflicting needs. For example, being told that trans people should be able to toilet, change and sleep in their preferred space where sex segregation exists in schools/ in residential trips. Schools are told that if this is a problem for other students then they should be educated and if they still are not happy they should be excluded from their sex designated space/ a residential trip. Schools are being told that this is because being transgender is a protected characteristic and not being trans isn’t. However, sex is a protected characteristic and the Equalities Act allows for segregation by sex for good reason.
Whilst is is often distressing for some young trans people to not be able to use facilities designated to the sex they identify as, it is also distressing for some victims of sexual abuse to undress in proximity to people with sexed bodies that match the sex of their abuser(s).
There can be conflicts of interest between transwomen and women in relation to differentiating by biology.

My take on the threads on this board is that they are about trying to make sure one set of needs are not accommodated at the expense of others. I don’t think they are about disregarding any one groups needs.

It looks like mumsnet is trans obsessed because it's the only British site that actually allows women to talk about issues that impact on their lives, without being banned.

Since there's only one tiny part of the Internet where gender critical discussion is openly allowed, why are some Mumsnet posters seemingly obsessed with complaining about it? Why are they so bothered? Has the rest of the Internet been shut down as a result so that people are no longer able to chant "trans women are women"? Like who cares how people choose to post when it's such a tiny part of the Internet. These "why must you be free to discuss this?" complaints are constantly coming up on here. Why?

@Smokenbubbles

The main reason why this has become such a hot topic is because of the cross party support for self identification.

This is social engineering on a mammoth scale.

It means anyone, literally anyone, can legally change their sex by downloading a form from the Internet.

Your DH could do it tomorrow.

And it would give them carte blanche to adopt the rights of their chosen sex.

This only really affects women. Because the sex-based protection, written in law are generally to address women's biological function (maternity law, etc) or the acknowledgment that they are disadvantaged (all women shortlists), or the fact that men commit 98% of sexually violent crime, and therefore women sometimes require same-sex provision (rape refuges, prisons).

By invoking, and exploiting, the current equality law and adding self identification, it means that rapists are getting transferred to women's prisons, men are competing as women in sport, and beating women, organisations like the girl guides are allowed boys identifying as girls to sleep in the same tents as girls, without parental knowledge, and middle-aged men are demanding they are allowed to change in the same space as teenage girls.

Among other things.

Perhaps it's best to read the links at the beginning of this thread. It gives you a breakdown of the problems and the terms being used, which are confusing.

Please bear in mind that most feminists are left-leaning, and historically champion minorities. It's what they do.

The trans-ideology is deeply homophobic as it erases sexual orientation.

Not only is it not the same as gay rights, it actively undermines them, as though they don't exist.

Yes there are valid concerns about self id but I don't see why we can't also fight against other inequalities at the same time.

I can’t speak for anyone else on here, but I would guess they would be more likely, not less likely, to be fighting for injustice on several fronts at once. That’s usually the way with feminists.

There was an identical OP to this just a week or so ago.

It looks like mumsnet is trans obsessed because it's the only British site that actually allows women to talk about issues that impact on their lives, without being banned.
So as more and more people are reaching peak trans finding the only place they can talk or ask questions is mumsnet, more people come here to ask questions and learn.

MN feminism board is flooded with trans posts. It gets annoying. But it's a sign of more people peak transing, coming here and learning from the excellent feminists here, as the issue becomes more and more urgent (thank you Westminster).

We need to talk about this.

Womanformally, I'm not angry and not sure why you would think that. Yes there are valid concerns about self id but I don't see why we can't also fight against other inequalities at the same time.

Thank you Tru - you are brilliant.

@TruScum Excellent post as always!

I haven’t seen any threads on here angry and demanding that I have rights taken away/not given any op?

Do point them out if you can. We’ve been offering cash prizes, but guess what - no winners yet.

What I have seen is intelligent and articulate women, who understand history and just how much little time has actually passed since women had to fight for the same rights and private spaces currently under threat.

What rights do I not already have?

Why do I need to be given rights that will involve taking away rights and safety measures from another marginalised and abused group?

Law does not always equal morally or in this day and age even factually right. The government could make it law that the sky is yellow with sparkles tomorrow. Won’t catch many people rushing to correct their children when they call it blue.

Transwonen are not women. I come with my own completely separate needs and wants. I will however never suffer because if my sex.

I will not die in childbirth or be denied access to abortion. I did not attend school because my family couldn’t afford sanitary protection for me.

I will always retain my male chromosomes, no matter how much my mental disorder makes me change my body. I will always be physically on average much stronger than a woman. It would be extremely unfair for me to take advantage of this by competing against women in certain sports (if you are unaware that this is already happening with horrific consequences and injuries may I suggest you read more)

I may be at risk of rape and assault from the same group that attacks women (men) but with no where near the insidious frequency or social acceptance of it that women and girls have to deal with. Six transwomen killed (in the last few years) compared to over 900 women killed by their male partner/husband. Two a week on average in the UK at the minute.

If you are truly young and naive then I implore you to read all of this section. Don’t be like those idiots so scared of challenging their own virtue that they lose all reading comprehension skin skills and merely look for any offends that could be taken, rather than challenging yourself.

If, however, you are one of those disingenuous fuckwits trying to stifle the genuine concerns of women if all political persuasions may I suggest you give up now.

Here’s the thing, most people on MN are happy for trans people to have rights, to live as they please, to be safe. Where the problem comes in, is that many trans activists want to take women’s safety and rights in order to have their own. Both can exist separately - women would probably have helped fight for them but TRAs want our rights and our safety at our expense and we should just jolly well shut up and be good women and take it.

@YTho It's curious why you are angry at women fighting on the frontline of the war against women - this time caused by some more entitled men launching a full scale offensive on another front - the Transgender front.

I think there are some valid concerns around self Id which need to be discussed, but unfortunately it is becoming a great distraction from fighting against the many other inequalities which are affecting women negatively.

The assumption in your post as to why this topic has so many women concerned and engaged is false. You misrepresent the concerns of millions of women worldwide.

If you are concerned about women and children safety then it is something to be concerned about. Gay men were never demanding access to women only spaces

If you're unconcerned about women and children's safety, then the topic probably wouldn't be of interest.

And yes there's plenty of info on here and elsewhere about aggressive men and why they would use identifying as a woman to gain access to vulnerable women and children.

She's a different generation - my own daughter is fairly clued up but many of her peers aren't. On top of that, with a trans man in the class, ruby rose as a role model and gender fluidity being trendy, it is not surprising that younger women do not see the issues: many are beautifully innocent as to the actual need for safe spaces/reasons behind them.

I advance searched you and you are my daughter's age

OK; doubty benefitty...

Some of us were the women that fought against racism and homophobia in the bygone era. Please be the young person that doesn't assume that older women must be stupid, bigoted and closed-minded. If we fought apartheid, section 28, the criminal justice bill and the poll tax, why are we also fighting this? Please try to think critically.

OP is obviously very clued in and read up on this subject and understands all the nuance. With the clearly laid arguments in the opening post my mind is totally swayed