6 women 'convicted of rape'

gentletryer

You're not the first person to get upset due to this misunderstanding.

Of course women can coerce unwilling men into sex and commit sexual assault. (and I believe that crime is treated every bit as seriously as rape).

But when the word rape is used, it must involve a penis. Which is why if women are reported as raping, it will generally mean they are men identifying as women.

My understanding is that the only time that isn't the case, is when a woman has been equally responsible for a rape by eg holding down the victim. These crimes are incredibly rare.

The terms rape needs to remain forever defined as penetration with a penis.

It's an incredibly useful piece of knowledge.

Goodness me gentletryer you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

gentletryer The OP was about six specific instances in England and Wales where the rapist was recorded as a "woman". Therefore, in these cases, only the legal definition of rape in England and Wales is relevant. (As BetsyM00 has pointed out, the legal definition is different again in Scotland.)

The definition of rape that you have quoted is different to the legal definition in England and Wales.

No one is saying that the circumstances that you describe never happen, although they are obviously much less common than the perpetrator being male.

Perhaps the definition is different where you live? That is certainly interesting but is not relevant to the OP.

No - you can only rape someone with a penis. The 6 "women" have penises.

gentletryer

You're wrong.
Simple as that.

In English law, rape is only ever penetration with a penis.

There are categories of sexual assault that cover other crimes.
But you are simply wrong.
No penis, no rape, in English law.
It's a very specific crime.

For goodness sake look it up before embarrassing yourself by contradicting people who have it right.

Thinking like that is why so many people are wrongfully accused and have there life ruined by uneducated opinionated fools.

Does Scotland also have the equivalent of the rest of the UK's crime of "Assault by Penetration"

Yes.

'Sexual assault by penetration' and 'sexual assault': 'sexual assault by penetration' is when the attacker sexually penetrates the vagina or anus of the victim without their consent. The penetration could involve a part of the attacker's body (for example a finger) or an object (for example a bottle or a vibrator).

The attacker might also use his penis. There is an overlap between the offences of 'rape' and 'sexual assault by penetration'. This is to cover cases where the victim is not sure if they were penetrated by a penis, for example, because they were blindfolded at the time.

from

www.gov.scot/publications/information-help-rape-sexual-assault/pages/7/

I’m in England, the words might change or law talk might be slightly different. But to say “ a woman can’t rape someone” is stupid in any country, language or meaning

Are you in England or Wales, Gentle? Definitions vary from country to country.

To all of the people on this thread saying a woman can’t rape or how can a woman rape and those saying you have to have a penis to rape. You are so wrong it is sickening, one of the biggest issues to do with the wrongful conviction or accusations of rape is thinking like that. “Rape is any insertion of a persons mouth anus or vagina with ANY part of the body or foreign object withou that persons consent. That works both ways if a man is drunk to the point where he is incoherent and a woman puts his penis inside her in any way shape or form. That’s rape.
Thinking like that is why so many people are wrongfully accused and have there life ruined by uneducated opinionated fools.
Feel free to comment with your opinions.

for everyone affected by this.
This is hugely offensive gaslighting.
These rapists are clearly not women, because women can’t do penis-specific crime. We should not insult women further by calling these rapists ‘women’ in official statistics. Third category is needed.

I can remember a few of these women

Davina Ayrton
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-hampshire-35726292

Lisa Hauxwell
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-39209982

I wonder if they’ll change the law to state his/her penis?

I can see transwomen being able to claim a legal defence of "I couldn't have raped her, because the law says it needs to be with HIS penis, and I am a "her", so I do not fit the legal definition of a rapist, due to my ladybrain".

I don't think it's possible to rule out joint enterprise on the basis of lack of media. Lots of crimes aren't covered in the media for all sorts of reasons. I can imagine women involved in sex trafficking and gang crimes could be prosecuted under this as well as the child abuse scenario mentioned above.

There is a book on amazon by an attorney general which covers such topics it’s called Woman who rape men (Female Sexual Predators) by John Davis

I wonder why Scotland bothered to update the definitions?

Does Scotland also have the equivalent of the rest of the UK's crime of "Assault by Penetration" @BetsyM00 ?

Wow. Somebody has actually gone into all the details. Incredible.

Thanks, Betsy.

The law in Scotland is different to England and Wales - the penis has been de-sexed. There is only mention of Person "A"'s penis, and surgically created penises are specifically included in the definition of the crime of rape.

would self-identifying transwomen be recorded as women

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-criticised-over-allowing-suspects-to-self-identify-gender-1-4939550

'Police Scotland was asked under Freedom of Information legislation when it stopped recording incidents according to a person’s biological sex and began recording according to self-identified gender.

A force spokeswoman responded: “I can confirm that there was no ‘effective date’ for this process, rather it has evolved '

Not sure if this is the case in England/Wales/N Ireland.

What is the definition of a penis? If a transman had an approximation created, could they then rape with it?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Firstly, I think that that would be classified as a prosthesis, not a penis. If they were carelessly charged with the crime of rape and prosecuted then I imagine that they might be able to contest the case on the grounds that they do not have a penis?

Secondly, as far as I can see the Sexual Offences Act 2003 recognises the sex of the perpetrator, so a "transman" is female and only a male is able to commit the crime of rape with, quote, "his penis" .

It has already been mentioned that the crime of "Assault by Penetration" can be committed by anyone who penetrates someone else without their consent with something other than a penis. My understanding is that that is what would apply in your transman scenario.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/publications/item/sexual-offences-definitive-guideline/

However, @AlessandraAsteriti is the legal expert.

How different sections of the press would report such a crime is anyone's guess.

What is the definition of a penis? If a transman had an approximation created, could they then rape with it?

Cross post with Goose. I've heard of instances of that happening too - and also the fact that (just as women sometimes orgasm involuntarily during rape) men occasionally get erections as a stress reaction, or involuntarily. (It's also not uncommon for victims of male-on-male rape to ejaculate as a physiological response to stimulation of their prostate, even though they did not consent and are hating every moment of their ordeal).

I think though the events as described would still legally count as sexual assault rather than rape in this country (though morally they'd still be as terrible).

I spoke to the office of national statistics about exactly this in 2016.

As others have said, rape MUST be with a penis, OR an 'inchoate' conviction, which is more truthfully described as inciting/encouraging/assisting another person, a man, to do the rape, whilst not actually being the rapist.

Of course, police forces have been recording perpetrators by self ID since 2009 so the number of penis owning criminals recorded as 'females' has dramatically increased.