If you think mn is strongly transphobic....

It can be hard for people who are not members of the cult to keep up when the police officer or the principle or the boss is genderfluid and the male dominance dance requires them to use a different pronoun for the authority figure on different days.

think it is because MN is required by law and policy to comply with Madigan's claim

No, not law at all. Policy, maybe.

Though I have great difficulty not referring to any male-bodied individual as 'he'. It is the correct pronoun. In such situations I am obliged to use the plural pronoun for its neutrality, even though it is also grammatically incorrect.

"Im not sure it is the vast majority of the time. Ive seen some people arguing that it is fine to call a trans woman a man to her face 'because feminism' like its some kind of stand and not just a really horrible upsetting thing to do to someone.
Ive seen that a few times on here actually."

To those men with AGP it's the only right thing to do. Because the alternative, is just as much an insult to women as they claim they perceive it an insult to be called a man.

Oh, hello Mr MRA, how you doing?

But trans people arent trying to exist just to take rights away from women. They arent some evil force of misogynists. To claim that they are, as a lot of people on here seem to do IS trans phobic.
I do not know how you can say that with a straight face knowing that government sanctioned transgender advocates are going into the schools and encouraging the use of Lupron, this generations thalidomide. Knowing that abusive males are transitioning in name only to access their prey.
Your response is Not All Men? Not All Trangender males are like that so women must submit? No!

yes and like the men who call all feminists feminazis you are tarring all trans people with the same brush.
Not all feminists believe all heterosexual penetrative sex is rape and hate men.
Not all trans people believe in self ID and want to gain access to womens refuges and prevent women from using the word 'vagina'

Most people are just trying to protect their own rights to exist.

Consistently misgendering trans people to their faces is like saying they have no right to exist and I certainly believe that is transphobic.

I consider myself to be a feminist and I understand some of the concerns and arguments around self ID. That does worry me and some types of trans activism worries me.
But trans people arent trying to exist just to take rights away from women. They arent some evil force of misogynists. To claim that they are, as a lot of people on here seem to do IS trans phobic.

All I know is that the mods said they would delete accurately sexing or misgendering of Madigan.
We speculated on why.

Are you talking about the current thread about Miranda Yardley windchimesabotage? There's some proper serious debate of the kind we desperately need on that thread. It's not a comfortable read, I grant you. It's not transphobic though, it's a thread full of women and transsexuals fearlessly searching for clarity. And not agreeing on everything, which is absolutely fine.

Are they though? We on the whole have no idea if Madigan has a GRC or not. I have yet to see any ruling on pronouns, happy to be corrected.

Men used to call Feminists Man Haters and now they call Feminists transphobic man haters. Every generation men tell us that women saying no to men is a hate crime.

@Hackedoffwoman I think it is because MN is required by law and policy to comply with Madigan's claim that they identify as transgender.

Sadly you cannot be pro-women’s rights without someone screeching at you that you are a terf/transphobic/anti-trans/bigot.

It’s bollocks.

I'm more than a tad pissed off. I referred to L Madigan as a he in another thread and it was deleted. I was not answering to a personal post by LM so was not rude. I have no reason to believe that Madigan is anything other than a male other than his say so. WHY can I not use my language ?

I think in 10/20 years time we'll have a lot of detransitioners, mostly female, whose bodies and fertility have been irreversibly damaged. There are already growing numbers of young women detransitioning but research into this is apparently forbidden.

Im not sure it is the vast majority of the time. Ive seen some people arguing that it is fine to call a trans woman a man to her face 'because feminism' like its some kind of stand and not just a really horrible upsetting thing to do to someone.
Ive seen that a few times on here actually.
We have been conditioned to lie to accommodate men's beliefs about themselves all our lives. I stopped doing so about forty years ago, and have no intention of starting again. I have no phobia regarding males and their dominance displays. I am indifferent to them.

My question remains:
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex, and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

I think the "Trans Theme Tune" thread is childish and transphobic. On balance more childish than transphobic but certainly not helpful to make your point.

Im not sure it is the vast majority of the time. Ive seen some people arguing that it is fine to call a trans woman a man to her face 'because feminism' like its some kind of stand and not just a really horrible upsetting thing to do to someone.
Ive seen that a few times on here actually.

The vast majority of the time on here, 'misgendering' is not done out of transphobia, it's done for clarity. So much of this debate hinges on language. Law is made out of language. Half the reason we're in this mess is because the current law (GRA and EA) fudges language.

We're talking about changes to the law that will impact everybody, but which will overwhelmingly disadvantage women and girls. We can't afford to fudge it again.

@PencilsInSpace I suppose I meant it Isn't as confusing. I'm not sure! I'm writing a post rather than my thesis so didn't edit or proofread but happy to accept that 'simply' might not have been the most appropriate word. I just wanted to add another perspective as to how things might look different in 10/20 years time

I think its a mix and you cant really say 'We' as though everyone on mumsnet has the same view. There are people talking about about trans issues in every which way on here, and yes there are quite few people who arent just concerned about the impact of trans activism but are actually transphobic and insist on misgendering etc

Will children who think they are wrongly gendered simply reassign in their teenage years.

'Simply' reassign? There is nothing at all simple about this process even for the tiny few children for whom this is the best outcome.

Debate on mumsnet and the internet generally either boils down to people making the same sensible points over and over again, or people trolling each other then getting irate about it. The latter makes it almost impossible to sift through. If I can’t be arsed with it and I’m someone who essentially agrees with the general view on here how do people expect to change opinions? A Twitter war is not the way to find sense in a complex debate.

I confess that I did not expect the "you women talk too much" accusation from someone who chats on MN.

I want gender non-conforming children not to be told they are in the wrong body and sterilised, and for women to retain their right to sex segregated sports, prisons and refuges. If this is considered transphobia then so be it.