What on earth is going to happen to women?

In my opinion it’s not the fact the poster asked questions. I’ve seen plenty of quiestions asked in this board and a discussion ensues involving all parties, whether they agree or not.

What is very familiar to posters here is a style if posting.

Question after question asked with absolutely no indication that the poster in question has read any previous answers l. No evolution in the discussion, no discussion at all.

Just rounds of questions that aren’t even interconnected. It’s like they ask one question, don’t read what they want in the answers, so then switch to another question.

Non stop. Repeatedly. Until all previous discussion has halted as most posters try to figure out if it is someone genuine with poor reading comprehension or a ‘sea lion’.

You need to develop a sense of humour about it in the end to stop yourself going mad.

If you’re looking for a marginal seat then may I suggest the minister for women and equalities? Amber Rudd’s majority in Hastings is only 346. And she’s being very woolly on the subject.

Sanderz - I'm the one they called a sea lion. I'm not a familiar poster. I've never commented on these threads before. I'm usually found on the brexit threads or the ones complaining about how crap men are. I am a feminist. Maybe I'm not the most clever person on here, but my IQ is a long way above average. I didn't have time to read everything or answer every question because I was busy helping my child with homework at the same time. I wasn't trying to derail the thread, I just asked a few very polite questions and was met with rudeness. I'm not a troll. I left the thread because I was tired and felt like I was being bullied. I'm not going to comment again on this thread because I don't like being bullied and I don't want to derail the precious conversation further. If you don't want to believe me then don't, people just believe what they want to believe anyway.

My advice to those who were calling me a sea lion (whatever that means) is that you need a new tactic. Being nasty to people never works. If you want people on your side with this, then be nicer, kinder human beings. Not everyone in the world is up to speed with this, most people have never even heard of it before and can't see what the problem is. You will just alienate people if you are belittling, untrusting of people's motives and unkind.

feminazi has been used for years, whenever feminists say anything that men don't like, which is pretty much all the time

feminazis are responsible for #metoo which means that men aren't allowed to look at or ever speak to women, if they do they immediately have their whole lives destroyed, that kind of idea.

If you have time have a quick scan of any post that starts of with why is Mumsnet transphobic and similar titles, if you find one where the op sticks around long enough to debate or answers questions you might win a prize!

It's the tactics that are familiar not the user names. When I came into the feminism boards here over a year ago I just took everyone at face value and answered questions nicely as well as I could, but week in week out when it's the same thing you start to run out of patience, so I understand now why the old timers on here get a bit snappy.

The most frustrating thing that happens is when someone bounces in and shouts transphobic! Bigots! Etc because they never ever stick around for the questions or back up what they are saying. They never ever answer the questions or make sensible points.

I think that's why pp were suspicious of this poster, they would not reply to any questions or debate the points raised. I'm still very new to this though, like you, so someone else can probably explain this more clearly.

Was that a familiar poster then? Sorry, I didn't realise. How can you tell the difference? I can understand why someone would ask a lot of questions though, people put a lot of points across in quick succession on here. It must be eye-rolling if it happens all the time though, that's true. I don't know why name calling is needed though when nobody has to reply to any particular poster.

One term of abuse that has now been adopted by main stream media is feminazi, even piers Morgan used the phrase n day time tv. This shows a real shift in my opinion. Plus all the silly bitches on YouTube with their enlightening videos, why I'm not a feminist, why I hate feminism etc and the MRAs turn up to praise them and comment on the size of their tits.

But I'm derailing this thread now! Same theme though.

I'm with Golden on this Sanderz. I'm so bloody sick of every thread on feminism being derailed by the usual suspects. At best it's tiresome, at worst the derailing is an attempt to intimidate feminists so we shut up and go away, it's draining and scary. This is Not just on Mumsnet but everywhere, even my own Facebook page.

I no longer comment on feminist videos on YouTube either because I have had so much abuse even death threats and my account has had attempted hacks. Comparing someone to a sea lion is minor, sea lions are cute anyway - yes I know that's not the point of the meme- so I find it hard to take seriously.

It does feel like bullying, Sanderz and it is. But not in the direction you think.

Asking question after question without listening to the answer; derailing and diverting the conversation; not answering questions you are asked in order to facilitate a debate and generally refusing to engage in a meaningful manner is an attempt to bully people who are saying something you don't want said into silence.

Sorry to rehash old ground but I found the posts about sea lions really difficult to read. It actually made me feel physically unconformable. It felt like bullying. I don't know why, I just feel I had to say that. It made me really sad and quite shocked really. Sorry, I don't know why I'm writing this.

Sorry to crash your thread, but I have been away, then snowed in, and have a lot of catching up to do. Would it be possible for some of you to give this thread a visit?www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3185398-Biological-SEX-MATTERS-How-many-mumsnetters-say-aye-to-this-campaign

Somerford that sounds good but I'm not sure what it really means.

Without laws for women we wouldn't have the vote, rape in marriage wouldn't be illegal, rape would be defined in a very different way in law.... Women wouldn't be allowed to work in many industries / after they were married, and wouldn't be allowed to own property or have any rights over their own children. That wouldn't be any good, would it?

The people who are better off without laws are the ones who are at the top and don't need protecting and that isn't women & children.

Thanks! so I do make some sense.

As a metaphor, I don't think your Darkest Moments interpretation is all that far from the truth.

It's all a bit 'resistance is futile' if you ask me. The Borg Trans Collective is fast assimilating.

I have a mental health issue, so my take on it is a bit mad at times In my darkest moments I think this Trans self ID movement has been orchestrated by Satan himself in preparation for the anti Christ. I think we have already lost and dark times are ahead. Meanwhile society is sleep walking into this and it's going to be a disaster.

When I'm a bit more rational I just think we need to fight as hard as we can and raise awareness so even if it goes tits up, I can say to my future grandchildren, I tried.

The fight is already lost. The answer to every grievance in living memory has been more laws, more regulation, a bigger and more powerful state. What happens when you empower the state to this extent and then find that it turns against you? We're about to find out. When you invite the state into every facet of your existence you grant it the power to fuck you over. We still haven't learned this or understood it properly, I'm fact threads on pretty much any other issue are still full to the brim with demands for bigger government, more laws, more power structures with the ability to ruin you in a heartbeat. All of those things are apparently wonderful when we anticipate that they'll be used against our perceived enemies.

I say that the fight is already lost because I don't think we have learned anything. We will lose this one and we'll lose more in the future until we learn that the state doesn't give a flying fuck about it's citizens, at least until such time as the condition of the citizenry begins to threaten state power. We won't learn though. We'll continue with the delusion that things will be much better if we could only get such a person into parliament. If only we could pass more laws and hand over more control to the government.

This is the inevitable conclusion of authoritarianism and never ending empowerment of the state. We demanded this. We insisted upon it, in fact we continue to insist upon it. We've spent years building these power structures and TRAs have made light work of infiltrating them. We should never have built them at all.

a - what most people think of 'trans women'
b - man crowd funding for their transport after their gigs, because travelling home is only unsafe for 'trans women' aka men.
c - yes dude, feminism is for women. The actual ones with vaginas. Who knew eh?

Most folk in the UK are sensible and here in Scotland transexuals are still an exotic breed who I don't think are going to take over the world any time soon

Anybody who has ever worked in, volunteered in, studied or researched male pattern abusive behaviour understands that the reason we have safe guarding and gate keeping is that the places we don't are magnets for abusive males - whether they wear a dress or not. We also know that abusive males will go to any lengths (training as a priest, doctor, youth worker, etc) to access victims.

Self-ID drops safe guarding and gate keeping and ergo, all women's services will be a magnet for abusive males.

a - we all get there eventually, but by the time some do, it will be too late
b - sex and gender and sexual orientation are all completely unrelated to each other
c - not a woman.

a - this is not inclusivity
b - this is 'well it doesn't affect me'
c - this is what men who are pretending to be women are after - some easy catches.

I always find a picture paints a thousand words.

These are not women.

RavenBrow

Okay, well how do you think we should stop what is happening right now.

How do we keep rapists away from women in prison? How do we stop the likes of Lauren Jeska stabbing her coach in the neck because she refused to provide testosterone samples?

How do we stop Travis Alabanza, who identifies as a 15-year-old girl on nights out, making Topshop change their changing room policy so he can change the teens?

How do we stop 19-year-old male Lily Madigan representing women, as women's officer?

What's your actual strategy?

Or does it just involve heads and sand?

Sorry

*say they are a woman

Most folk in the UK are sensible and here in Scotland transexuals are still an exotic breed who I don't think are going to take over the world any time soon

But, for the umpeenth time, this isn't about transsexuals. There are a number of transsexuals (mtf and ftm) who post on here saying the same things. I'm not scared of transsexuals.

However, I am very concerned about the predatory males who will use this law to enter women's spaces unchallenged. And it will be unchallenged because they will have as much right to be there as anyone with a 'female' style body if they say they are a man. A lack of a dress and the presence of a beard will be irrelevant.

And they won't even have to say they are a woman because no one will challenge them because no one will quite be sure whether they are allowed to or not because they know the law has changed but they're not quite sure of the specifics and the last thing they want to do is be arrested for a hate crime against a transwoman and lose their job. So they'll say nothing and turn a blind eye...