Why are more women not worried about impact of transactivism?

but as a woman I do not feel afraid that people who are actually heterosexual males are going to CHANGE THEIR GENDER just to sit in a cubicle next to a woman having a **.

I admire your innocence.

It seems quite clear to me that the only ideology that they have is to live the way they want to without stigma. The only way to change the way society stigmatizes people is to change society's attitudes. I don't see how that is radical.

It is quite radical to insist that we all believe there are no physical differences between men and women. That we believe that penis's can be female. That people who have lived 30/40/50 years as men and have acted as men in fathering children are now biological women just on their say so. That's going to take some re-education.

Njordsgrrrl where is the evidence that they are "aggressively transing children"?

They are raising awareness of it and more kids are becoming aware.

That is completely different from forcing kids to transition, the prospect of which I find quite comical.

But if you have any evidence of this, feel free to supply.

@Angelic89

Do you think women have penises?

Hi Debbie6666

Given that the trans ideology and the proposed change to the law is a paedophile's dream, how do you suggest people talk about that aspect?

People do NOT equate gender dysphoria with paedophilia.

Autogynephilia is a fetish. And many men who have it like to identify as very young. Middle-aged men calling themselves girls and dressing in a stereotypically 'girly' way.

Like Steph-on-knee, a middle-aged father of six who identifies as a child, and female, and plays with children, whilst enjoying anal sex with her 'father'.

Which would appear to be both AGP and paedophilia.

Furthermore pedophiles are attempting to make paedophilia into a 'sexual orientation'.

Which would give it protection under equality law.

Which, I agree, sounds crazy. But there's a lot of crazy around at the moment.

But you know, if you like pretend that people equate trans with paedophilia, and should therefore shut up about it, I'm afraid it won't work.

The pedophilia thing was a standard aimed at gay people since the beginning of homophobic time.

Oh look, they legalised gay marriage. Oh look, gay pedophilia didn't increase!

A lot of gay pedophilia happens in the most straightest of the straight heteronormative contexts of them all: THE CHURCH.

Person above alleges one trans group posted pedophilic pics.

Oh well, that settles it then. One trans group (which you give no sources for btw) posted a pic of naked kids, hence all trans people are peados.

Debbie, why do you think I'm wrong? Spell out your argument please as I don't see it.

AAKittens is bisexual. As I understand it, she is concerned about the appropriation of LGB. Is she wrong to be concerned? Why?

Questioning the motivation for aggressively transing children is completely different to the old ignorant and bigoted attitude that LGBT people are perverts who'll do anything. Most people can see that surely?

Ummm... so enlighten me then, what is trans ideology?

It's funny how you're all concerned with sounding like a bunch of bigots, because TBF that's exactly what you sound like.

I don't know much about the trans community, I've only seen a few documentaries on it - various vids on Youtube by people who identify as trans etc, but it seems quite clear in my mind:

• They feel they were born in the wrong body
• They have felt that way since childhood (i.e. they were born that way - they didn't "choose" it - who in their right mind would choose something that would be so societally shunned anyway?)
• They want to live their life as the gender that they feel they are.

Let's say it's all a rouse. And these are very disturbed people looking for answers in life in the wrong areas (by the way, I don't believe this, but let's just SAY it's true).... with more research and developments in this area i.e. recognizing trans legally - society will eventually recognize this, and these people will get a different kind of psychological help. Meanwhile, it's hardly going to "ruin society" is it? I've heard the toilet argument (loads of people in the Bible belt in the US love to make it) - but as a woman I do not feel afraid that people who are actually heterosexual males are going to CHANGE THEIR GENDER just to sit in a cubicle next to a woman having a . Maybe there are one or two freaks who would - but having seen what most trans people go through in their life - I'd happily sacrifice this thought for THEIR ENTIRE LIFE BEING OK. I don't see how else it could be detrimental to non-trans people. Apart from pissing a few old-fashioned bigots off. They're hardly going to take over the planet, are they?

I'm not too sure what this TRA aggressive activism you're talking about is. Can you provide examples?

I don't think you can. This reminds me of what they aim at feminists when they say we're all radical man-hating activists that want to cleanse the world of men with our "ideology".

It seems quite clear to me that the only ideology that they have is to live the way they want to without stigma. The only way to change the way society stigmatizes people is to change society's attitudes. I don't see how that is radical.

If there is something I'm missing, then by all means enlighten me, but peoples' posts on here are high on the fear creating factor and very low on facts... like almost all bigotry.

need i go on?

Direct association with trans in the first post

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3128837-Normalising-paedophilia-and-sexualisation-of-childrenn*

Did you even read this post, Debbie? The association between trans groups and paedophilia in that post is because a transactivist group was posting cartoon drawings of naked children!

Are we now not even allowed to point out when TA post inappropriate images of children (that set safeguarding alarm bells ringing) without being accused of bigotry? Denying and shutting down expressions of concern?

Sheesh. Behaviour like yours is a safeguarding nightmare.

They'll eventually try to add another P for pedophile, just wait

So the P isn’t covered by any of the other letters which seems to be the exact opposite of your ‘point’.

@MrsOvarall

Yep keep that denial going.

AngryAttackKittens
Yep! I'm the B and don't much appreciate the acronym turning into "assorted perverts grouped here".

They'll eventually try to add another P for pedophile, just wait.

No one I know is talking about this irl -it’s not really reached the general population. I think it will take a couple of years to reach people generally, and then another couple of years for people to realise the implications. This may be sped up considerably if politicians continue to court individuals who are violent criminals, sex offenders and racists regarding trans and this is properly reported on, and if the issues in sport are raised in the sporting world - I don’t think the average sports fan would be comfortable watching adult male bodies in competitive women’s sports.

I don't see people making a connection between paedophilia and homosexuality there Debbie. An observation that abusers might hop on the trans bandwagon to facilitate their abuse, surely?

The LBGT word salad thing is an observation that the P does NOT belong in that context.

I think the main problem is that people just haven’t thought the issues through.

If you’re generally a liberal, tolerant kind of person who tries not to be racist, homophobic etc, then you automatically assume that you don’t want to be transphobic either. But you maybe haven’t fully realised the impact on women.

I was talking to a friend recently about trans women in sport - not just professionals, but say a mixed secondary school in which the majority of the netball team ends up being physically male. She said “well, you’d just have to have a rule that there were at least 3 girls on the team”. I said “but that’s the whole point! The trans girls would be insisting they ARE girls so they’d be taking up one of the female slots!”

The point is she really hadn’t made that leap yet.

need i go on?

Direct association with trans in the first post

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3128837-Normalising-paedophilia-and-sexualisation-of-children

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3154849-So-now-there-is-a-K-for-Kink-in-the-LGBTQIACHKP

Second post adding another P for Paedophile to LGBTQIACHKP+

Never happens....

@ReluctantCamper
2) Please link to the Mumsnet comment that equates gay and trans people with paedophilia and online grooming. I will donate £50 to the charity of your choice if you can find one

Please make your £50 donation to Mermaids, Posted less than a fortnight ago and found easily despite the crappy search engine.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3173651-Article-on-the-funding-behind-transgender-lobbying-organisations?pg=1

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHol

Yes, this part has always puzzled me. I did think for a while that pushing for puberty blockers and such was a..paedophile thing. To create 'legal children' basically. But even that comes across very conspiracy theory

Its all really really odd. Its came from nowhere and is advancing at an alarming rate.

Followed up with

SweetGrapes
Yy to the "paedophile thing" thegoal . Gives me the creeps.

Quite

Everyone should have the right to say
"I do not believe in God".

Everyone should have the right to say
"I do not believe transwomen are women".

Messed up the quote there, ''you don't think men are stronger than women'' was from Datun.

You don't think men are stronger than women?

It's now transphobic to make this point.

Jesus wept.

salmon Until as recently as the beginning of last year I would have been firmly on your side. I read the trans threads and was appalled by the ‘right wing’ views and lack of tolerance.

Hear hear. I find it amazing I allowed myself to be convinced that innate gender identity exists. Years ago I was a practicing Christian and I would spend much time arguing with very conservative men who firmly believed that gender roles were innate and women were naturally predisposed to femininity and passivity. I would argue back using good old raf-fem talking points of socialisation etc.

Then I found myself trying to argue that transwomen are women because gender is innate, and women have feminine identities ....

I'm not a stranger to beliefs that have no grounding in science, I'm sympathetic to people who have them At the same time I don't think anyone should have the right to impose their beliefs on the rest of the population.

Imagine if you will an evangelical Christian who experiences a strong sense in God every time they pray. Because they have this internal strong sense of God, they now declare that it is bigoted and violent to state there is no God. Their experience of God is proof that God exists. You must accept not just their experiences but their explanation for that experience. You are not allowed to suggest alternative reasons for that experience, or point out that you can get a similar experience attending a concert with your favourite band. This is hatred towards them. Bonkers, yes?

Salmon
Do you also subscribe to trans racial and trabsabled

As others have said, the majority of people think transgender = transsexual on hormones. They just don’t realise the ever widening trans umbrella include men with recognised paraphilia ie autogynephiles.
They believe that puberty blockers are reversible and the only alternative is driving your child to suicide
They haven’t heard of men competing in (and winning in) women’s sport
They don’t think about convicted sex offenders being placed in women’s prisons because ‘surely that wouldn’t be allowed’

They think it’s all a fuss about pronouns and toilets and in 10 years time we will wonder what the fuss was about

I think most women can’t get het up over words so the argument about pronouns and cis is turning them right off. Life’s too short, they’ll say.

However, point out how vulnerable children are at risk and you’ll get a completely different reaction. Tell them that Mermaids are going into schools and what they are promoting and the outrage from both mothers and fathers is certainly there.

Perhaps more women are concerned but they also have many other more immediate things to worry about.