My Life CBBC Transgender

These people had chaotic lives in a variety of ways. They lived on the margins of society. I can't remember the dates we're talking about, it could have been 30 years ago. It's not necessarily comparable with someone in the U.K. taking antiretroviral drugs as prescribed by the NHS.

I don't have the full details, so I can't elaborate any further. But in many ways they were at higher risk of dying earlier than other trans people in their country, or people generally. Thank you for your clarification re HIV and it's fantastic that people are now able to have a normal lifespan, which obviously wasn't always the case.

One of them ISTR they were all HIV positive. It's not difficult to see that they were at higher risk of dying young.

Just because anyone is HIV+ it shouldn't be assumed that they will be at higher risk of dying young. People living with HIV can have a normal lifespan today but this will depend on different factors like being on, and adherent to, medication.

FWIW, I followed several of the articles making these life expectancy claims all the way back to their sources and it was in every case entirely based on the average age of murder victims who identify as trans.

YY. It's the average life expectancy of trans murder victims, which is a very small group of the overall trans population. I've had TRAs suggest that it actually refers to murder plus suicide when their murder claim is debunked. It doesn't, though that's going to be a larger population.

FWIW, I followed several of the articles making these life expectancy claims all the way back to their sources and it was in every case entirely based on the average age of murder victims who identify as trans.

It's not necessarily done on purpose, if we give the benefit of the doubt here, but seems based on a limited understanding of the data. What is noteworthy of course is that the average age of murder victims in general is actually lower than that figure of 35 years, but nobody is claiming that people in general have a life expectancy of less than 35 years because of it.

Could you expand on this please, as in were they diagnosed HIV+ and on antiretrovirals?

As I said, I don't have access to the evidence now, nor do I know where it came from. So I don't know the answer to your question off hand. You could see if you can find it yourself. If you do, let me know.

Due to an absolutely ridiculous individual who sued the NHS in a global pandemic children can’t get puberty blockers

1. She didn't sue the NHS, she forced a judicial review to examine their clinical malpractice.

2. How totally fucked in the head do you have to be to describe someone who has suffered irreversible medical damage and possible sterility at the hands of doctors who should have known better as a "ridiculous individual"? Shame on you.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I've been shown evidence, but not sure how to find it as person no longer on Twitter, that this statistic comes from either or both of two small sample surveys. One was conducted in Buenos Aires and one in Rio de Janeiro. They both dealt with small groups (where survey participants were all using the same service) of MTF trans prostitutes. One of them ISTR they were all HIV positive. It's not difficult to see that they were at higher risk of dying young. The "lifespan" figure isn't representative even of all trans people in Latin America.

Could you expand on this please, as in were they diagnosed HIV+ and on antiretrovirals?

And I think we are very aware of the number of trans people murdered in the uk in the last couple of years.

Thankfully it is zero. So I’m not sure who those senior politicians and organisations were doing making videos and putting up flags in remembrance of but it wasn’t trans people in the uk.
On the flip side there were quite a few women murdered in the same time frame - and they didn’t get a mention of if they did it was through gritted teeth and qualified with something like ‘but also remember the transwomen’.

Are you worried about that much Britishkid? Or have you disappeared again?

Ok, so let’s parse this out. First: “Latin American organizations report that the life expectancy of trans women in the region is between 30 and 35 years of age.” There are no data attached, but evidently outlets and people who repeat this claim are extrapolating the life expectancy for trans women in the United States based on organizations that have made that claim about an entirely different region, one with some of the highest murder rates in the world. Sounds airtight.

I've been shown evidence, but not sure how to find it as person no longer on Twitter, that this statistic comes from either or both of two small sample surveys. One was conducted in Buenos Aires and one in Rio de Janeiro. They both dealt with small groups (where survey participants were all
using the same service) of MTF trans prostitutes. One of them ISTR they were all HIV positive. It's not difficult to see that they were at higher risk of dying young. The "lifespan" figure isn't representative even of all trans people in Latin America.

It's a lie. And its use is deeply irresponsible. Why do they want to terrify trans people that they're at high risk of be murdered?

In America black transwomen have a life expectancy of THIRTY FIVE because so many trans individuals are murdered.

There are about 25-30 trans individuals sadly murdered every year in the whole of the US. How do you think that figure could be true exactly? Do you think there are only a few hundred trans people? As pp have pointed out, it's literal nonsense.

Due to an absolutely ridiculous individual who sued the NHS in a global pandemic children can’t get puberty blockers

Even the Tavistock and Mermaids managed to express a bit of sympathy for Keira.

"In America black transwomen have a life expectancy of THIRTY FIVE because so many trans individuals are murdered"

That statement was made by Patricia Arquette at the 2019 Emmy awards (backstage) and has been uncritically repeated in numerous media outlets, but no factual source for that claim has ever been found.

It strongly appears that Arquette has extrapolated certain figures relating to transwomen of color in South American countries, figures which Do Not give the average age of death of trans people in the US, but which do give the age range of trans people of color who have been murdered in those countries (in particular Brazil).

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This article 'Is the Life Expectancy of Trans Women in the U.S. Just 35? No.' investigates possible sources of Patricia Arquette's claim, especially a report called:

“An Overview of Violence against LGBTI Persons in the Americas: a Registry Documenting Acts of Violence between January 1, 2013 and March 31, 2014.”

The article states (about the Report): ......

'That report was compiled by the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights in 2015, and in it, researchers examined 594 homicides in which LGBTQ people were victims over a 15-month period. The countries surveyed included Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, the United States, Uruguay, and Venezuela, and here’s what the actual report states:

'Latin American organizations report that the life expectancy of trans women in the region is between 30 and 35 years of age. According to the data collected by the IACHR, 80% of trans persons killed during a 15-month period were 35 years of age or younger. The IACHR has received consistent reports showing that trans women who are sex workers are particularly vulnerable to community violence, including killings by individuals, their clients, illegal armed groups or gangs.'

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Ok, so let’s parse this out. First: “Latin American organizations report that the life expectancy of trans women in the region is between 30 and 35 years of age.” There are no data attached, but evidently outlets and people who repeat this claim are extrapolating the life expectancy for trans women in the United States based on organizations that have made that claim about an entirely different region, one with some of the highest murder rates in the world. Sounds airtight.

As for the second claim, that 80 percent of trans persons killed during a 15-month period were 35 years of age or younger, that’s not particularly surprising. Homicides drop precipitously with age across all demographics: Globally, over 80 percent of all homicide victims are under the age of 44, with the bulk of victims being 29 and younger. But still, that statistic has nothing to do with the average trans woman because the average trans woman is not the victim of murder.

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The IACHR did not respond to requests for comment, but this seems to be an example of reporters and activist groups failing to do basic due diligence. It becomes a big game of telephone: An activist group cites a poorly sourced press release, a reporter or blogger assumes that it’s fact, and a false statistic spreads like a particularly virulent virus. You may think that because violence against trans people is a real issue (and it is), it doesn't matter if the media exaggerates facts in order to dramatize the issue. But it does matter. Besides the fact that repeating this statistic shows gaping holes in the media’s ability to convey basic information, this incorrect statistic also has the pernicious side effect of sowing terror among trans women, who are told over and over that they can expect to die before they are old enough to run for President.'

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This Trans Respect mapping page shows incidence of trans murders country by country, yearly.    For 2019 the mapping shows 30 murders of trans people in the US (from a total US population of 331 million people).    

<a class="break-all" href="https://transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/?submap=tmm_2019" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/?submap=tmm_2019</a>

From the Trans Murder Monitoring section of the Trans Respect site:

'On the occasion of the International Trans Day of Remembrance
.(TDoR),1 held every year on 20 November, the Transrespect versus Transphobia Worldwide (TvT) research project publishes updated data gathered through the Trans Murder Monitoring (TMM).2

The TDoR 2020 update reveals a total of 350 trans and gender-diverse people registered murdered between 1 October 2019 and 30 September 2020, representing a 6% increase in reported murders from the 2019 update.

The majority of the murders occurred in Brazil (152), Mexico (57), and the United States (28), adding up to a total of 3664 reported cases in 75 countries and territories worldwide between 1 January 2008 and 30 September 2020.

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TDoR 2020 data shows that:

350 trans and gender-diverse people were murdered, 6% more than in the TMM update 2019;

98% of those murdered globally were trans women or trans feminine people;

62% of murdered trans people whose occupation is known were sex workers;

People of colour make up 79% of the 28 trans people murdered in the USA;

11 trans people murdered in Europe; 50% were migrants;

82% of all the murders registered happened in Central and South America; 43% in Brazil;

38% of the murders took place on the street and 22% in their own residence;

The average age of those murdered is 31 years old; the youngest being 15 years old.

transrespect.org/en/tmm-update-tdor-2020/

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Pre 2010-ish, we have always had a tiny number of people who insisted from very early on, usually around age 3, that they "were not" a boy, despite their sexed body, and "were" in fact a girl. This was more common in natal males. These people were vehement, expressed clear gender discomfort throughout their childhood, and were the group studied in the "only 1percent detransition" group.

The second, larger cohort, are mostly natal females. Parents will say no expression of gender discomfort was evident in childhood (though they may have not been especially "girly"; that isn't the same as persistent and consistent discomfort with ones gender). They announce they are trans at puberty (around 12 to 15 ish). These are the 4400 percent increased group, who simply didn't appear in gender identity services before 2010 ish. They have not been studied to see if their desistence rates are the same as the first group (I suspect far higher) and they are much more likely to be autistic or otherwise vulnerable.

The problem is that Mermaids began by representing that first group and has embraced the second group without acknowledging that the groups are different in many ways. They are applying the limited research of the first group to the second. However in reality the aetiology and trajectory of the two groups may be very different. They need to acknowledge this.

Transgender Trend's problem is that it acknowledges the second (much bigger) group, but doesn't accept that the first, tiny group have always existed and may be different and may indeed benefit from a pathway that is medical.

Then TRAs, a different group again, many if whom are late transitioning men who possibly have still different reasons for "wanting to change sex" have come into the mix insisting that rather than "I need to live as if I am a woman in society in order to feel at peace", as the first group above used to (mostly) say, the message has become "I literally am a woman if I say so and you must accept me in every space".

Basically we need to acknowledge that we are not dealing with one homogenous group here, and that not all trans people are the same. And that research done on one cohort cannot be applied to another. It's like saying that because research on huskies shows they are fine in the snow and need huge amounts of exercise, that therefore my Italian greyhound will be fine pulling a sledge - because both are dogs after all.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/angela-ames-sex-discrimination-case-breast-feeding-mom-loses-because-men-can-lactate-too.amp

Here’s the case you are talking about.

I’d also like to know BritishKid’s view on this, do you believe male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in communal change rooms with teenage girls?

Also I would like to know what BritishKid thinks of women who have been raped and men who have been raped, asking for a same sex doctor. Should they be allowed to do this?

Also I would like to know what you think of transwidows. Should they be allowed to speak if their partner has been lying to them and abusive towards them?

Also I’d like to know how many trans people you think have been murdered in the UK. Can you please provide statistics.

Can you also explain why so many autistic girls are suddenly transitioning? Can you find some statistics and reasons to explain why?

So many questions! I look forward to your responses and then I’m going to ask you more questions.

Britishkid I watched that Jammidodger video. Everything that Jamie said in there has been discussed extensively on these boards (and quite frankly, completely demolished.)

For example, Jamie says that women and transwomen are entitled to the same rights, whereas men and transmen do not need the same rights. However, neither Jamie nor Shaaba explain what these rights are.

Please can you tell me what rights women and transwomen need that men and transmen don't need?

Usually, rights and protections for a specific group of people depend on that group of people sharing certain characteristics not shared by anyone outside the group. For instance, children have certain extra protections based on the fact that they are smaller, weaker and have less developed brains than adults. Adults have certain rights that children don't have (eg the right to vote or drink) because they have reached the age of maturity. The one characteristic that all adults share is that they are over the age of 18.

So please could you explain which characteristics are shared by all women and transwomen that are not shared by any men or transmen? Unless that can be answered, I don't know what rights Jamie is talking about.

I believe, however, that there was a case in America where a woman lost her job (I think) because of her need to be able to breastfeed. Once her job would have been protected under sex-discrimination laws, but she lost her case essentially because 'men can breastfeed too'. I'm afraid the details of this case have escaped me, but I am interested in your thoughts on that, given Jamie and Shaaba's position?

[quote Britishkid7gk]1. Transwomen are women and transmen are men

1. What do prostitutes have to do with this?
2. www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-assault-and-the-lgbt-community[/quote]

How old are you @Britishkid7gk?

Black transwomen do indeed have a higher death rate simply because black males are more likely to be murdered across the population as a whole. This is of course terrible on an individual level and for society as a whole and we should all be working towards addressing this.

So yes please do put your energy behind the systematic and societal reasons black males are likely to face violence but don't pretend it's only the trans ones :)

Keira Bell has stolen rights from thousands of children. She has made the lives of trans youth 10x harder. Trans individuals face wait lists of years just to find out that they can’t even get puberty blockers because a stupid court ruling

What a nasty thing to say - ignorant too. Keira has protected children. More than 80% of children who believe themselves to be trans desist. They mainly grow up to be gay. There needs to be better mental health support, exploration of other possible issues, etc not handing out puberty blockers with little safeguards.

You sound very young. Do you not think children should be protected?

Transwomen are women and transmen are men

What makes you think this? Really? I mean it's just not true is it?

Surely this proves that adults can’t consent to treatment

So you agree that as an adult Keira still wasn't mature enough to make such a life changing decision, but you're arguing that 12 year olds are?? Okay...

How about we just stop having life saving treatment all together because adults can consent to treatment they later regret too! Why don’t we ban tattoos and piercings as people get them removed? Why not ban cosmetic surgery which many people later regret?

The judicial review was about informed consent. Do you understand what informed consent means?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3988590-What-do-people-think

Keira Bell continued her transition as an adult even choosing to have gender reassignment surgery. Surely this proves that adults can’t consent to treatment?? How about we just stop having life saving treatment all together because adults can consent to treatment they later regret too! Why don’t we ban tattoos and piercings as people get them removed? Why not ban cosmetic surgery which many people later regret?

Anti depressants also have the side effect of depression listed on the box. My friends was prescribed antidepressants and within a week of starting to take them, I found myself calling her an ambulance to stop her killing herself. Plenty of trans individuals will happily tell you that transitioning has saved their lives.