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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

help me out - trans suicide rates?

37 replies

loveyouradvice · 02/03/2018 16:39

Hi....

I keep hearing that the mermaids/Lily quoted trans suicide rate of 42% is inaccurate and breaches Samaritans guidelines ... self selecting small group etc.... But then I come across the american stats? Which seem very similar? Any idea what we think of them?

An estimated 41 per cent of people who identify as transgender attempt to take their own life [according to figures from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention] and more than half of transgender youths in the U.S. have attempted suicide at least once before their 20th birthday.

OP posts:
SusanBunch · 02/03/2018 18:10

To be honest, the statistic does not hugely surprise me. People who identify as trans usually have a host of other mental health issues and being trans itself is a distressing feeling that you are born in the wrong body. Other people with dysphorias such as body dysmorphic disorder probably also report high rates of attempted suicide.

However, the trans lobby is using the statistic to say 'suicide rates are so high because they are not accepted/are being bullied'. I don't think that is correct. We used to live in a very racist society but I don't think people of minority groups had exceptionally high rates of suicide because of the discrimination they faced. Women are oppressed more than men, yet we don't have a higher rate of suicide. So yes, trans people may have a greater propensity towards suicide, but that should tell us that they need medical intervention and support. They are suicidal because they have disordered feelings about themselves, not because people are relentlessly bullying them.

caroldecker · 02/03/2018 18:09

I agree with Patodp
It is almost certainly that many of those who are suicidal grab hold of trans as a change that can solve their issues. It doesn't work for them, because it is not the root cause of their problems.

Patodp · 02/03/2018 18:07

Fucked up if that's another lie.

reallybadidea · 02/03/2018 18:07

I'd be interested to know whether there's any evidence that hormones/surgery/any other therapies have been shown to prevent suicide. The fact that mermaids et al never say this makes me suspect that evidence doesn't exist.

Patodp · 02/03/2018 18:07

I saw the 41% stat referenced in the book
"When Harry Became Sally" R. T. Anderson.

It is widely used across America.

BetsyM00 · 02/03/2018 18:06

LangCleg

It is interesting isn't it? I've been keeping an eye on the gids page as it changed shortly after I first posted the link on MN.

gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

07Dec2017: 1 suicide in ten years
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20171207032817/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20171207032817/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

17Dec2017: 4 suicides in ten years
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20171217175654/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20171217175654/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

08Feb2018: suicide is extremely rare
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20180208182305/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20180208182305/gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

I'm beginning to think all suicide stats are just completely made up.
Wonder what they'll change it to next?

Patodp · 02/03/2018 18:00

What worries me more about the accuracy or inaccuracy of the stats, is how the stats are used.

When it is used "41% of trans people attempt suicide" it is always followed by So....
"Give us everything we want, full validation, access to anything we want, or we are all going to die"
Even more mildly "So listen to what we want and give it to us"

What it looks like under a different analysis is that Transgender ideology is a magnet for troubled teens or people with other underlying mental health issues.

It attracts the same demographic as teens who would have suffered from body dismorphia. Believing your fat when you aren't. Turning to anorexia or bulimia or use of steroids to look muscly.

Psychiatrists frequently identify underlying causes in body dismorphia. A lack of self esteem. A need to be in control of what people think about you, a need to assert control on your world when you feel entirely powerless, a need for validation, to hear people talking about you the right way. In extremes it leads to total change of physical appearance. Transgenderism is not much different to other disphorias that lead to anorexia/bulimia.
One in five anorexia deaths are from suicide.
There is a high rate of suicide in those on the autism spectrum. A study in 2016 concluded that suicide was the leading cause of premature death in people with ASD. There is a correlation between ASD and Transgenderism.

Transgenderism offers many solutions to the troubled person.

An alter ego that will be praised and celebrated.
Control over people around you. You get to dictate use of pronouns, new name.
You receive a lot of special attention.
You feel celebrated and powerful and have a platform to express yourself and your world views.
You get a free pass to bully anyone who says anything factual.

There are certainly many factors that contribute to a high rate of suicide in trans people, if there is a higher rate amoungst them than other groups at all. But responding to it with total affirmation is doing far more harm than good.

(Including adult cross dressers in the transgender group makes any analysis rather more complicated because they are very contented).

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/03/2018 17:36

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-school-report-what-does-suicide-rate-mean/

These are some really good, well explained debunkings of the UK figures. I don't know the source of the statistics you quote, but the above links should give you an idea of what to look for.

LangCleg · 02/03/2018 17:31

Well, this is interesting.

I went to find you the GIDS evidence base quote about suicide in young people and it has changed since November when I last posted it here.

It used to say:

Similarly, suicide is extremely rare, with one case in the service in the last decade, of a young person in an inpatient ward who was referred with severe psychiatric difficulties.

And now it says:

Similarly, suicide is extremely rare.

So either there has been one or more suicides since November (I hope not) or GIDS is responding to pressure like everyone else.

This page also notes that self-harming is present in 39% of their caseload. This would not indicate that suicidal ideation, let alone attempt or completion, is not anywhere near 40%.

gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base

loveyouradvice · 02/03/2018 17:26

interesting that lesbians may have a higher rate.... that is something the T community keep very quiet...

OP posts:
DodoPatrol · 02/03/2018 17:21

I found this 2011 review: any good? Some of the authors are from the AFSP, though the rates of attempts don't seem to tally.

I've only skimmed it, but there is a section devoted to rates amongst T rather than LGB people.

Couple of quotes:
'An international review of studies that followed over 2,000 persons who had undergone gender reassignment surgery identified 16 possible suicide deaths ... If confirmed, these figures would translate to an alarmingly high rate of 800 suicides for every 100,000 post-surgery transsexuals.' [Note: looking at post-surgery, and concentrating on actual suicide, not attempts]

'Suicide attempt rates ranging from 19 to 25% have been reported among transgender individuals seeking surgical gender reassignment. More recent data from nonrandom surveys of self-identified transgender people found that up to one third of respondents report making one or more lifetime suicide attempts.'

'One study using a nonclinical sample of over 40,000 largely U.S. volunteers who completed an internet survey found ... that transgender respondents had a higher rate of reported suicide attempts than any group except homosexual females.'

I can't see anything more recent that looks at this broadly.

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