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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish Govt Consultation. What did you think? What next for Gender Self ID?

60 replies

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 01/03/2018 15:42

Feeling a strange sense of relief now that the Scottish Consultation deadline is nearly done. Waiting for 5pm then hitting the wine, as there's still a no travel advice here.

What did you all think of it?

I used to do a lot of work in bid management and overall it seemed to me like a badly written and rigged bid request. It was as though they based the requirements of the proposal on a pre-selected solution. If I had produced like that I would have got my arse kicked and if we received such a rigged proposal (from a government, no less) it would be certainly be grounds for complaint.

Also, proposing that non binary status should be written into law is barking. Non binary has no basis in reality. Are they on drugs? I can't believe a government would release a proposal for legislation on the basis of complete and utter GUFF.

I am mixed about some of the SNP's proposal, for example, the named person proposal was a scandal, but they have done some good work. Have completely lost any respect for them now, releasing this shoddy work which will have an unprecedented impact on women, girls and on children with no obvious advantage to transgender people at all.

I do think that they will push it into law regardless. And given that most of Scotland or UK have no real understanding of the implications, I foresee a mighty shitstorm ahead.

OP posts:
Twooter · 01/03/2018 17:01

My concern is that the results are likely to be heavily biased towards self id. In real life, no one I have spoken to have heard of the issue, let alone the consultation. I suspect all of the trans community will have heard of it.

TheGoodEnoughWife · 01/03/2018 16:59

Left mine a bit late but done with an hour to spare!

The 'running over puppies' was a good analogy.

If this then that - but I don't want the 'this' in the first place!

Patodp · 01/03/2018 16:56

Would they ever release the results?
No idea but I'm sensing it would be like Brexit 50-50 for-against maybe only slightly for or against.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 01/03/2018 16:51

Does anyone have church of scotland information? I cant believe they wouldnt oppose gender self id (a bit enemy of my enemy for me but needs must)

OldCrone · 01/03/2018 16:48

One of the Gunning Principles is:

The product of consultation must be conscientiously taken into account: If the decision-maker does not properly consider the material produced by the consultation, then it can be accused of having made up its mind; or of failing to take into account a relevant consideration.

So if they appear to have already made up their mind and go ahead regardless of all the objections, I think the result can be challenged. We'd need to raise funds for a legal challenge, though.

Ereshkigal · 01/03/2018 16:46

I personally think that it's something that could be looked at. But IANAL.

Ereshkigal · 01/03/2018 16:45

One of the things they were going to do was not consult on the status quo as an option. I persuaded them that we should include this as an choice. It's similar with this one, the questions are mostly framed in a way that make you think you are just being asked to give an opinion on the changes, not whether there should be any changes at all.

OldCrone · 01/03/2018 16:44

Would there be grounds for a judicial review if they decide to implement this? I think government consultations are supposed to adhere to the Gunning Principles.

www.eiapractice.wales.nhs.uk/consultation-gunning-principles-

www.nhsinvolvement.co.uk/connect-and-create/consultations/the-gunning-principles

Ereshkigal · 01/03/2018 16:40

Not giving details for obvious reasons. I've worked on a public consultation where the controversial proposal to change local services was set up and framed as a fait accompli. I asked some pointed questions in meetings and said we ought to be transparent and pulled up the then Labour government best practice guidelines and indirectly as a result of this they decided they were obliged to carry out a proper one, which likely changed the whole outcome. It is so easy to manipulate these things.

Myunicornfliessideways · 01/03/2018 16:32

I've worked in local government. It wouldn't be by any means the first 'consultation' I've seen where the plan has long been since decided and written and consultation is merely a box ticking exercise. There will be a lot of public attention on this consultation outcome, but I'm afraid I'd put good money on only the supporting comments and data being used to support the grand plan which will be immediately implemented.

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