Scottish Govt Consultation. What did you think? What next for Gender Self ID?

A mixed doubles with Andy and Federrer... that will make people sit up and notice!

Lass I have to agree with your view about public consultations having a foregone conclusion.
But even with that caveat, the GRA consultation was still one of the most poorly constructed I have ever read.

I did it really early on and thought it was totally rigged. As a research exercise it would not have passed in an undergraduate course.

Agreed smurf! I wonder if Andy Murray would be up for it when he retires - he's got good feminist credentials

Otoh maybe the GB team getting trounced at Olympics by lots of transwo men will do the deed?

Waddle I did think it might peak trans the nation if a man won the Ladies title at Wimbledon.

@MarSeeAh well that's depressing!

Maybe we should follow the money? Single sex schools & women's sports? (Are there any women's sports that make money?!)

@Waddlelikeapenguin

I used to be an atheist, so no offence taken!

I'm not at General Assembly this year, but I'm not aware of any plans to raise trans issues there. I've been doing my bit to raise awareness locally and in my own Presbytery, and when the document about welcoming trans and gnc individuals is released I intend to go through it very carefully, and will raise any concerns I have. It came about because a young woman, I think representing the Youth Assembly, proposed it from the floor of Assembly in 2015. I was a Commissioner that year and I spoke against her motion on the basis that although we should always be welcoming, this is a hugely complex issue on which the GA were voting without any depth of knowledge or awareness of trans issues. I was the only one who spoke against, and the motion was carried by a large majority.

@MarSeeAh
Thank you. Will it be brought to General assembly do you think?
(Btw hope my enemy/enemy comment didnt cause offence - it's only that I'm an atheist!)

In relation to Church of Scotland, I fear that I am in a minority as gender critical. I interacted recently with another minister on a closed FB group about the line that trans women are women, and she was very much following the trans agenda. The others who undoubtedly read our exchange either remained silent, and a small number "liked" her posts. No one liked mine, and the only comment I got was a NAMALT!

Someone pointed me in the direction of the Scottish Family Party when I was saying how none of the political parties (apart from UKIP) are against self I.d.

I read through their website, don't agree with many of their policies but they have this particular subject nailed.

@Waddlelikeapenguin

Does anyone have church of scotland information? I cant believe they wouldnt oppose gender self id (a bit enemy of my enemy for me but needs must)

I meant to phone and ask about their response to the consultation, but forgot. I'm a Parish Minister. Will try to remember to do that tomorrow or Monday. It's likely to be bland and non-committal though as General Assembly hasn't discussed this at all, other than agreeing to the production of guidance for congregations about how to welcome transgender and gnc individuals. That was agreed almost 2 years ago and the document is to be launched sometime within the next next.

I filled it in, but I have to say I'm another one who sees consultations as simply a way of shoo-ing in done deals. This one was particularly blatant though in its bias.

The consultation on the future of civil partnerships was launched with the statement that there was absolutely no intention of introducing mixed same civil partnerships, even though the consultation included questions about that. Interestingly, the results of that consultation were released very recently and include a reference to the consultation on the GRA, so the Scottish Government are making a connection between the two.

Yeah Smurf they're awful- lots of good comments though!

AAK

It's like they started a question with "given that Nessie exists and is valid, what should we feed her?"

I was horrified they even asked about non-binary. The whole thing is just nonsense on stilts.

Someone suggested that if SNP's proposal for self-identification becomes law in Scotland, then the resulting GRC would be transferable throughout the rest of the UK. In other words, a person born in England could travel to Scotland, sign a piece of paper and thus gain a GRC, then get a new (English) birth certificate. Does that seem possible? (Like getting married in Gretna Green.)

If not, there will be two completely different GRCs in different parts of the UK.

Delurking. I filled it out and submitted for all the good it will do.

It was painful. It took me weeks to do. I read a post somewhere on a recent thread that said something like 'If the sky was green, do you think the leaves on the trees should be pink or blue?' which kind of summed it up for me. If you don't agree with the basic premise of self-ID the rest of the questions were meaningless.

I wrote a paragraph or three for most of the questions but I think I might have fucked it up on the last question about the impact assessment because I ran out of steam. I politely described the many ways their impact assessment was shit and then went through the list of things the scottish govt. are apparently committed to, to advance sex equality. I politely described how self-ID would render each of them meaningless or impossible or would make things worse. Until I got to the last one which was about women's representation and I just put 'Lily Madigan' because I was tired and fed up and FFS Lily Madigan. I'm now worried they won't publish my response as they'll decide it's offensive because I have targeted an individual.

There will be loads of women who haven't written anything, just gone through and ticked the boxes. I expect them to publish numbers and if they don't a FOI request is in order. 'No' is a complete sentence, after all.

They should publish all written responses that are not considered offensive. While the trans equality report was a steaming pile of shit, the written responses that were published as part of it are a valuable resource, despite Miller ignoring them. Whatever the scottish government decide, that evidence will still exist and we can use it.

Bloody hell Waddle - I've just been reading the tweets on your link.

I'm thinking of printing them off and taking them to my MP.
Why do Twitter allow this ?
I've just realised I didn't even get to the survey results

Someone mentioned above wings over scotland survey results. They are here once you scroll to the bottom-
wingsoverscotland.com/the-law-that-nobody-wants/#more-100651

No point in an opinion poll as most people don’t actually understand the issue and would say they were supportive of trans rights as that seems the obvious ‘good’ thing to be.

I don’t believe consultations are genuine requests for input before making a decision, but suspect the decision has generally been made already.

But I filled it in anyway. Why make it easy for them!

I objected to the non-binary thing due to binary gender not actually existing. How can they legislate on something that has no legal definition?

Makes me very worried that it’s already a done deal politically

Every consultation I have responded to professionally was a done deal.

What will happen is that the Scottish Government will introduce draft legislation with a view of implementing all the things it was positive about with the exception of the removal of the grounds for divorce. It will hold a consultation on the draft legislation which it will implement in pretty much the way it thought of in the first place.

The desired direction of travel in any Scottish government consultation is always a well lit and well sign posted highway.