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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dear Sophie Walker...

69 replies

ArcheryAnnie · 28/02/2018 10:51

I don't know if you or your staff will ever read this, but here goes.

I was really impressed that you came to the Women's Place meeting in London yesterday. I was sitting with a big group of MNers, to your left, and I don't think any of us had any idea at all that you were there. It can't have been easy for you, sitting in that room and hearing hundreds of feminists hiss and boo whenever the WEP was mentioned by any speaker. I can't imagine you ever envisaged that when you started up an avowedly feminist political party. You were brave to stand up after that.

I was sorry you didn't stay until the end. I understand it, but I think it's a real pity.

But, but, but. It's no use taking notes and saying you are listening, if you don't take any account of what women are actually saying to you. I don't know either you or Heather Brunskell-Evans personally, but what I see from the outside is that one of you is willing to be transparent about what went on in the WEP, and one of you is hiding behind procedure as a way of avoiding transparency. It's not enough for you to shout out "that's not true" when Heather is talking, if you aren't prepared to speak on this yourself. It was clear to me that Heather would give you permission to publish, so why don't you? Because the reality is that so many women - at that meeting and elsewhere - have been threatened and hounded and ostracised and censured for saying pretty unremarkable things (such as "maybe we should think carefully before sterilising gender nonconforming children") that of course we are going to take Heather's side. So many of us have been there already.

You say that the WE formulates policy slowly, and that you are listening, but we here have been trying to talk to you about this since at least November 2015, and the ill-fated Guest Post from Sandi Toksvig. How long do you expect to take on this? Sandi wrote "Join us, share your ideas" and then buggered off, not leaving even one party member of the then alleged 50K members to bother to discuss ideas and answer questions with us. (This is what we had to say then, in case you'd like to know: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2502963-Guest-post-Sandi-Toksvig-The-time-is-right-for-the-Womens-Equality-Party?pg=1)

That was more than two years ago. How long, seriously, do you expect us to give you to formulate a coherent policy on these issues, when in the meantime your actions have show again and again that you are prepared to throw women under the bus? As the mighty Datun said at yesterday's meeting, sadly after you'd left, "Shit, or get off the pot".

There was one point during the meeting last night where I consciously thought "blimey this is it - I'm witnessing the last gasp of the WEP before its unhappy demise". I don't know whether that's true. I don't know whether you can row back from this. But you are now, for good or for ill, a player on the political stage, and you have, still, the goodwill of many women. (Although not nearly as many as you had at the start, I can promise you that.) You got off on a bad foot with MNers right from the start, and we could reasonably expect to be your natural allies, even those of us with existing loyalties to other political parties. How can you hope to be a mainstream political party if you are unable to talk successfully with us?

Where do you go from here?

OP posts:
RaininSummer · 28/02/2018 13:02

The WEP are a great disappointment. Great post OP.

BeyondDeadlySiren · 28/02/2018 12:52

^ what they all said.

DjunaBarnes · 28/02/2018 12:44

@datun yup.

BloodyMarie · 28/02/2018 12:33

*lick

Datun · 28/02/2018 12:31

Sophie,

Nobody has full access to what is going on, or has gone on, in your party.

Only you do.

Is it really beyond your power to surround yourself with women who support women? Genuine question.

Because if it is, you seem to be in a dilemma.

So here's a radical notion. Gather courage, resolve and support from all the women who are crying out for representation and spring clean your party.

Get rid of dissenting voices which are making it difficult for you to even define the people you claim to represent.

It shouldn't be this hard.

And if it is, just ask yourself why?

BloodyMarie · 28/02/2018 12:28

And you could like the chocolate teapot off the table doctor

doctorcuntybollocks · 28/02/2018 12:10

The WEP are worse than a chocolate teapot.
A chocolate teapot would have comedy value; the WEP are just pitiful.

DjunaBarnes · 28/02/2018 12:06

another former member here, I was also at the meeting last night, it was a great meeting. while I'm impressed that sophie walker came into such a hostile environment and spoke I just don't think it rings true. theres been time to formulate a position, time to hold a debate but none of it's been done. I think they just hoped this would all blow over, but it doing so they've missed the bus on being in on the formation of a new women's movement.

BloodyMarie · 28/02/2018 11:57

Leaving early, says it all
The WEP are pointless for women

Patodp · 28/02/2018 11:53

All you have done is prove that gender critical women are not welcome in your party or indeed anywhere, and that you will blindly side with trans ideology till its death, just like every other male centric organisation.

You could not even support a woman who has spent three decades studying gender and women's rights, fighting VAWG, who's voice should be and urgently needs to be heared, respected and given platform.

You caved.
One complaint. One man.
One more incredible woman shut down.

The WEP has proven itself spineless and utterly unfit for purpose.

loveyouradvice · 28/02/2018 11:34

As a founding WEP member - I was SO excited!

What you are doing is truly important.

Please do listen - and talk - and listen - and talk.... Women's rights are central to this and as the WEP if you are not prioritising women's rights over trans-rights, there is something seriously wrong.... especially if you listen closely many transpeople are NOT shouting for the same things as the Activists but whispering, No no no.....

There is room to genuinely be a WEP and be supportive of the transcommunity as a whole, but not the transactivists....

LangCleg · 28/02/2018 11:05

Hi Sophie

TBH, I lost interest in WEP when it decided it wouldn't approach economic issues as these weren't specifically women's issues. Um, I thought, gendered austerity? The care economy? And I agreed with others who were calling you a middle class ladies' campaign group.

Now, I realise you will blackball members who have a structural, not identity-based, analysis of gender and are unable to even define women by biology.

I have to ask. What is the point of you?

Sorry.

Wanderingwomb · 28/02/2018 11:01

Hi SW. You would have my & my DH vote if you could support women.

OrderOnline · 28/02/2018 11:01

I once sat with CAtherine Mayer, in WEP early days. I was told WEP was inspired by UKIP. That WEP was helping shape other political parties policy. You sold women out by not being gender critical, you can turn this around, history will respect you as will we, if you turn this around and stop putting men ahead of women.

On a personal level, if it's true that ASC runs in your family, you are advocating sterilisation of children like your own, I don't know how you can live with that.

Gendarme · 28/02/2018 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gendarme · 28/02/2018 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mumsnut · 28/02/2018 10:56

Ditto

(Thanks, Archery)

UpstartCrow · 28/02/2018 10:55

ArcheryAnnie We need more women (and men) like you in politics.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 28/02/2018 10:55

Great letter Annie and I concur.

Sophie, women need a party that supports us. Many of us are politically homeless now, precisely because of this issue.

Please, listen to us and talk with us