Munroe Bergdorf for Grazia "Women Are Getting Feminism Wrong.

When it comes to a woman being fertile/infertile, it doesn't matter because what matters is that she was BORN a woman and her whole path/life, her parents/employers and educators have all sub consciously or consciously treated her as a person who might be a mother with all the responsibilities and disadvantages that that that brings with it. Women can't just declare that as they won't be having children they would like all the privileges men enjoy for not being discriminated against as parents.

God how far we've come, men telling us they're women and telling us we're doing feminism wrong, feminism needs to protect their rights

I don't get the 'are you saying that a woman who is infertile isn't a real woman then? Are you? Are you?' argument.

Perhaps it should be pointed out to these stupid TRAs that when it comes to infertility 40% is "down" to the woman, 40% is "down" to the man and 20% involves problems with both partners. (NB that is not made up.Published research has confirmed this stat over and over).

None of these TRAs seem to suggest that an infertile male is not a real man do they?

They really are monumentally stupid.

Good article OP. Puts the bulk of trans ideology into one place should I need to point someone in the direction of why all this is pissing people off so much.

Altogether it sums up the misogynistic, science-denying, penis-centring shit being peddled.

Not even a dot of irony when complaining about the icon of the pink pussy hats, not even a wit of intelligence and joined up thinking about re-appropriation (particularly coming from a POC) from someone who started a club night called the 'Pussy Palace'. So its alright when Bergdorf does it but not natal born women? Fuck. Off.

And yes I like the term 'womanface' too. Different from drag artists I think, which is more about biting humour, theatre etc. This is more about mimicry and 'passing'. Drag is pretending to be a hyper visual female, womanface is more about making every one else pretend you are a woman.

SnibbleAgain - I like your use of 'womanface' and I think we should all use it more widely. I've been considering the parallels between blackface and the whole stereotypical hair-flicking bitch-posing that a lot of men dressing up as women seem to adopt.

Be good if we could just up the use of 'womanface' more generally and just make people think about that a little bit.

Maybe he's really a conservative double agent?

When he's not working undercover as the right-on trendy-lovvie labour leader he's out hunting with the hounds, or languishing in his country pile, sipping sherry and taking potshots at the local peasantry with his antique blunderbuss.

Bergdorf is not only racist and misogynistic, but thick as shit.
Have a look at the interview he did with Andrew Neill, Ed balls, and Michael Portillo, car crash. He couldn't articulate a proper argument, just gave sound bites.
Does Corbyn actually want to get into Government, this latest appointment makes me think he's doing his best to make the Labour Party a laughing stock, so they don't have to deal with Brexit.

I also have sympathy with Jack. She is clearly vulnerable and sensitive and um... I don't think she's ever going to be the most adept at political theory or public intellectualism (that sounds meaner than I intend, but you know what I mean).

But, but, but, but, but...

... she's always doing this. She picks the fight. She gets piled on. She complains about being bullied.

Yes, she got piled on. But she only got piled on because she tried to incite her own pile on of Hadley Freeman by quote tweeting to her followers instead of simply replying to Hadley's tweets.

That's the point of quote tweeting. Jack knows this as well as the rest of us do. It just backfired on her is all.

Secondly, her mum has only had a hysterectomy because she is a woman, with a woman's reproductive system

YES exactly.

I don't get the 'are you saying that a woman who is infertile isn't a real woman then? Are you? Are you?' argument.

The reason that women some women can't make or carry a baby is because there is something wrong with their female reproductive system. Or because they have been through the very female experience of menopause and therefore have come to the end of their days as a female who is able to reproduce.

Not because they have meat and two veg.

Sometimes, with campaigning and raising awareness, the number of women who need to have a hysterectomy or become infertile can be reduced. But this can't happen if we can't talk about issues like cervical cancer or endo or PCOS without worrying that we aren't centering people without these reproductive capacities in everything we talk about.

It's so fucked up.

I can't imagine what Corbyn is thinking of in appointing this person. I am seriously starting to wonder whether Corbyn isn't very bright after all.

As for Jack Monroe, I was tempted to join in her Twitter argument yesterday but couldn't face it in the end. She had this bizarre argument that feminists who centre the "vagina" somehow exclude women who had a hysterectomy (like her mum) and women who have had FGM. Yet this is the exact opposite of the truth. For a start, both her mum and women who have had FGM still have vaginas. Secondly, her mum has only had a hysterectomy because she is a woman, with a woman's reproductive system and all the problems that creates. Thirdly, women who have had FGM are possibly one of the best examples there is of how biology is the source of our oppression. These are women who have been mutilated to suppress their sexuality. FGM causes all sorts of problems - infections, difficulty menstruating, hugely painful sex, very difficult and dangerous childbirth. How on earth could she think that a feminism less focused on biology would benefit these women?

Here's the inimitable Lisa Muggeridge addressing Bergdorf directly:

idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2018/02/28/what-intersectionality-means-for-trans-women-a-post-for-munroe-bergdorf/

Shall I tell her that she isn’t doing mixed race or trans woman properly?

She’s doing it alllll wrong you know. And braiding her hair? Well that’s half cultural appropriation you know, like the little Mix woman.

Why are people giving agitators and stirrers like this one a voice? We had Germaine Greer and Ann Oakley, this generation of students have male persons presenting as woman (and arming not to like women very much anyway) telling us that we should dress like ikkle pink girlies or pole dancers, enjoy car calls and getting our bums pinched and bow to the mighty penis (which can be female you know).

Yup, education and critical thinking/debate really isn’t what it used to be. People swallow any kind of crap these days.

That's good RTB - it's about time MPs started to get involved.
Now we just need one of them to challenge Lord Patel about why he is asking convicted sex offenders / attempted rapists to advise the Labour party?

Helen Grant MP @ HelenGrantMP
@DawnButlerBrent urgently needs to reconsider her appointment of Munroe Bergdorf. The kind of language Bergdorf has used has no place in public life and ought to be condemned by all those who are serious about promoting equality.

You do have to ask yourself: what kind of person doesn't want women rallying around a powerful symbol of resistance to sexual assault and harassment?

MrsDoyle that article is glorious! First proper laugh I've had in ages - at least since we found ourselves living the 1984 dream.

Re: the pink pussy hats - women know that labia come in many different shapes and sizes and colours. The pink hats don't look like anyone's labia. They are pink-for-a-girl and emblematic of women's genitalia, not a model of the ideal pussy. And therefore, getting upset about them is bollocks, appropriately enough.

Honestly. Women come up with a brilliant unifying device that unites 'womanly' crafts with reclaiming something 'grabbed' by Captain Orange and men want to tell them it's not right and they need to change it. Infuriating.

I wonder if they will advise saving money by eliminating OB/Gyn services from the NIH since the real women do not need them and it is an unfair advantage to have this specialized care for the female vagina women.

@wigglybeezer vaginal mesh implants have terrible consequences for a lot of women. Look up slingthemesh campaign. Apologies if there's now a better version but as I understand it the campaign is ongoing.

Sorry lik fail, try again link

I though this wass a very good and humorous from Current [[http://www.feministcurrent.com/2018/02/27/munroe-bergdorf-like-please-keep-vaginas-feminism/]]
I haven't seen today's Daily Politics, I'll have to look out for it.

I wish Daily Politics had mentioned MB’s comments trying to get women to shut up about their reproductive systems.

Yes, it’s funny how his misogyny is being overlooked in all this. It’s almost like it’s acceptable to be offensive to women, and to erase us.

Haven't read the thread yet, so may have already been mentioned but MB is on The Wright Stuff tomorrow.

I wish Daily Politics had mentioned MB’s comments trying to get women to shut up about their reproductive systems.

To me, that is clearly more offensive than what they said about race!