Munroe Bergdorf for Grazia "Women Are Getting Feminism Wrong.

Monroe Bergdorf is an arse.

Maybe Monroe should come here and join the band of males who like to tell women how feminism should work, despite being comprehensively clueless on the most basic ideas. It keeps them off the streets, I suppose - if it kept Monroe out of politics, that'd be a result.

Jack Monroe is always flouncing from twitter.

I don’t think talking out of your derrière counts.

Presumably we can't have the vagina monologues any more.

Wondering what LM will be talking about....

Can you just imagine if a powerful person talked about twisting men by the nuts, would anyone tell men not to centre it on their biology?

It's beyond farce, that he can think like that and doesn't understand why we object.

I know, let's organise a march about safe spaces, and tell TIMs it isn't all about them, and they mustn't be such bigots.

At the end of the day, this is a man telling women what to do with their vaginas.

Even if I was respectful re pronouns, it's still someone restricting what we can think about our vaginas.

The pussy hats were in response to trump; symbolism only.

And the person whines about longing for the day when all women stand for trans women; likewise hun. Our war is still not won, or we wouldn't have to have metoo and the pussy hats, let alone having to accommodate yours as well.

he sounds like an idiot frankly.
obviously the suffragette movement in the UK was mostly white, so was the populace in those days.
Anyway he has obviously not heard of Sophia Duleep Singh..(although how she came to be a Brit is another story..)

She courts controversy but she can't handle it. It isn't for everyone. It will be good for her to get off twitter.

On a personal level, I really like Jack. She desperately needs a sense of perspective, though. I fear what makes her passionate also makes her vulnerable.

*Jack Monroe does my nut in in the way that a teenage daughter does your nut in. She's clearly quite vulnerable, says she is unwell, then releases a diatribe on twitter re Monroe. And she is surprised and hurt that she gets responses. Or 'a dogpile' as she put it. It really wasn't either, it was many feminists saying FFS Jack, get a grip.

I seriously want to shake her.

Then make her some soup and send her to bed with a hot water bottle. grin*

Jack has just anounced she’s quitting Twitter for good (possibly best for her mental health) due to the abuse she received (constantly gets).

I don’t quite get it though- I watched the mess unfold yesterday. Jack started it off publicly attacking Hadley Freeman and opening her up for a pile of abuse. Most if the responses i saw to Jack were calm and imo reasonable. No hate, no abuse. Jack sends out really mixed messages but doesn’t seem to be in a great place at the moment. As frustrating as she can be she sounds vulnerable - hope she gets her head togther and finds some peace and quiet.

I had a gander at this guy's Twitter feed and my god, as well as being a misogynist, this guy is an idiot too! He criticised the suffragette movement for being racist, even though there was never a colour bar on voting in the UK and there were in fact several non-white women prominent in the suffragette movement - remarkable considering that there were relatively few non-white people in the UK at the time. Happily, he got roundly mocked for his ignorance.

It seems that this guy is opposed to any movement which a) doesn't centre his feelings and b) doesn't make him a victim.

I wasn't able to have children but that still didn't stop me getting paid less than my colleagues. Why? Because I'm a fucking woman and they were men. The ability of being able to bear children has been used throughout the centuries to subjugate women and this is just a twist on that argument.

Love the idea of transplaining and womanface

This person is mixed race. So can speak about that. Being mixed race and racist hmmmmm.

Transgender advocates know perfectly well that "transwomen" are a subset of males. In order to create the illusion that trans identified males are a subset of females they need to argue that there are many subsets of females. They started comparing themselves to intersex but got so much push back from the intersex community that they switched to infertile women or women who have had hysterectomies being just like males who identify as women.
More recently they are arguing that trans identified males are just like Black women who are more like males than females. Are they ignorant of the racist history of that claim or do they just not care?

Basically they are doing the old con man razzle dazzle with the understanding that most people will not care enough about the issue of what they call themselves to argue with them. When someone does they are easily dismissed as discriminating against a marginalized class. White males.

Colour as in people of colour, not really sure what the PC way to express this is!

I really think Munroe Bergdorf could have a lot to say about colour, just as Paris Lees could have a lot to say about poverty BUT they don't have anything to say about being female. WHY do they keep trying to tell us how to 'be female'!

I don't get the 'are you saying that a woman who is infertile isn't a real woman then? Are you? Are you?' argument.

I've said it before in another thread and I'll repeat it here. It's just obfuscating on their part. They're not interested in providing a better definition of woman. They can't because all they have are subjective internal experiences. Their definitions of men and women are entirely circular. Men are people who identify as men. Women are people who identify as women.

www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/19484-the-return-of-idealism-identity-and-the-politics-of-oppression

This is a long but good read which is mainly a criticism of identity politics but does a good critique of trans ideology.

Morning - (pussy) hats off to your dedication to scientific enlightenment!

pink to symbolise femininity

The designers (a white woman and a woman of colour) have certainly never suggested it was an attempt to specify the colour your vulva has to be if you are to count as a woman

morning

My understanding was that it was pink because 'girls like pink'

They ask:
Can a woman who is infertile be a woman - if yes, why not them?
Can a woman born with an incomplete vagina be a woman - if yes, why not them?
Can a woman whose uterus has been removed be a woman - if yes, why not them?
Can a woman who has an intersex type chromosome abnormality be a woman - if yes, why not them?
Does a woman brought up as a boy (eg in Afghanistan) be a woman - if yes, why not them?

The answer to each one of those questions is indeed "yes". But where a person has every single 1 of those "conditions" - plus extra "conditions" associated with the male sex, such as being born with testicles and a penis - no, not a woman. And everyone knows it. Why do they get away with such stupid arguments?