Can Pro-lifers be feminists?

Wiseup, never once have i heard of a woman getting to that late and seeking abortion just cos, they seem to only exist in anti abortion debates
There are always more factors at play, especially since a dr wont do it on a whim

And I'm feeling pretty safe in assuming that the number of women have 'social abortions' at 38 or 39 weeks would be minuscule.

And of course an unwanted pregnancy is a parasite. That's why women use contraception. That's why contraception is now (thankfully) an integral part of our society.

Because women spend a profound majority of their lives not wanting to become pregnant.

Squeakums-
Er no, a pregnancy is not a parasitic relationship. You can try to make out it is something that doesn't fit a biological definition to make yourself feel better about your stance, but it isn't true.
Parasites are different species to host in all circumstances, pregnancy is the result of reproduction.

Most women dont get to 30 weeks and go eh im done abortion time. So we aint talking a healthy normal fetus here

Yes, some of us are.

"Can you explain what the exact difference is between a baby born at 37 weeks and one being carried?" - I have already.

"Would you oppose delivery by c-section to conserve life of baby?"- yes, if the woman doesn't want this then it shouldn't be forced upon her.

As for your other questions about partial birth abortions... I'm not sure I should even respond to it. Do you think that this situation could ever actually occur? That a woman would decide to abort half way through a vaginal delivery? And if a woman did request it, that it could be decided in time that this was a valid request and someone found to carry it out?

The bold function seems to be fubar....

Lass, no as most late term abortions are done cos the fetus is defective
Most women dont get to 30 weeks and go eh im done abortion time. So we aint talking a healthy normal fetus here

* Lass - if a woman is choosing to abort that late, there is clearly a problem and the baby is unlikely to survive.*

But that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re now talking about termination for “social”* reasons where the foetus, if its heart is not stopped deliberately, would live after delivery.

• Fairly stupid trivialising term.

"there are no terms and conditions"

Yes there are Missy you simply chose to ignore them. One of them is that it centres women and women's bodily autonomy.

Trying to deny a woman's option to terminate an unwanted pregnancy is to deny a woman bodily autonomy and is, therefore, not a feminist thing to do. It really is that simple.

Missymoo100
Squeekums-
Calling a pregnant woman a host, makes it sound like you are calling the unborn a parasite, like the person carrying it is in no way part of the reason it's there in the first place
Broken down thats what a pregnant woman is, broken down essentially its a parasitic relationship between woman and fetus. Sorry you dont like the fact i take the cutesy bs out of it, the cutesy bs thats used in forced birth spiels to try guilt women to gestating pregnancys they dont want or cant handle
In many cases the woman tried to avoid pregnancy with contraception so she was trying to keep it out

I get tired of saying this but people seem to have forgotten or perhaps never knew.
Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. All women. Even the women who disagree and do not like the principles of Feminism.

^This

There are many often bewildered posts asking why women don’t see themselves as feminists. In all of those threads the question is put to the nay sayers, “do you support equality for women?” When they say “yes” they are told, “then you are a feminist” but then threads like this serve only to alienate women who have differing perspectives within feminism.

Almost no rights are inalienable, they almost all come with compromises so it is almost always a question of taking a view and looking at the nuances and coming down wherever you stand on the issue. Many feminists don’t support abortion to term, for example, even though in reality that is the logical opposition to the pro life movement.

It really is #nodebate to dictate that there is only one set of values or code that you deem you a feminist.

while I believe abortion to term is the only logical position for a pro-choice person, I have no appetite for campaigning for a change in the law to increase limits - it's a fight we won't win. Would rather spend my time protecting the hard-won rights we do currently have.

Absolutely agree.

Lass - if a woman is choosing to abort that late, there is clearly a problem and the baby is unlikely to survive.

Then take the baby out of the woman and let it live! What gives you the right to kill it?
And for all you people banging on about it only being a 'foetus', were you aware that 'foetus' is the Latin name for what we refer to as a 'baby'

Duh thats what abortion does, removes the fetus. Late term abortions usually mean the fetus is defective anyway and wont survive

fetus
ˈfiːtəs/Submit
noun
noun: fetus; plural noun: fetuses; noun: foetus; plural noun: foetuses
an unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human more than eight weeks after conception.
synonyms: embryo, fertilized egg, unborn baby, unborn child

fetus is UNBORN mammal actually

Lass can't speak for others, but while I believe abortion to term is the only logical position for a pro-choice person, I have no appetite for campaigning for a change in the law to increase limits - it's a fight we won't win. Would rather spend my time protecting the hard-won rights we do currently have

Absolutely.

Nobody is "banging on" about it being "only" a foetus.

Squeekums-
Calling a pregnant woman a host, makes it sound like you are calling the unborn a parasite, like the person carrying it is in no way part of the reason it's there in the first place.

Plus common sense says if a woman is aborting that late, the fetus wasnt going to survive birth

Eh? A feotus born after 26 weeks has a fair chance of surviving.

Lass can't speak for others, but while I believe abortion to term is the only logical position for a pro-choice person, I have no appetite for campaigning for a change in the law to increase limits - it's a fight we won't win. Would rather spend my time protecting the hard-won rights we do currently have.

No, if they are not yet born they are still wholly dependent on the woman carrying them and still are only potentially able to become a person. Yes they are fully formed and yes they are alive.

I’m not disagreeing with your overall stance. Termination should be available freely and quickly on demand up to the point at which no foetus is independently viable with medical help (arguably 23 weeks nowadays - despite wishful thinking this really isn’t going to drop until we have artificial uteruses (uteri?)). Termination after then gets into a grey area as any baby born up to 32 weeks will need NICU/SCBU care. But after about 35 weeks they are mostly completely viable without specialist care.

If a woman chooses to have a termination at this stage there is no option but for her to deliver (via section or vaginally). This biologically inevitable. If the foetus’s heart isn’t stopped in utero before delivery, it will most likely survive.

I’m struggling with the concept that it is OK to inject a foetus with KCl while it is inside the woman but would be murder to do the same an hour later once it has been delivered.

Of course this is hypothetical, and if free non-judgmental access to early abortions was coupled with terminations up to term I would think such a situation would be vanishingly rare, but it would need to be considered.

Missymoo My opinion is that right to life is the ultimate right that is above all others

Thats fine, for you.
Women have a right to life, you know the ones we currently living, we are not incubators and owe nothing to a fetus if thats what we want
You cant demand an organ or blood from a person should you need it, like a fetus cant demand a host

Were you aware that 'foetus' is the Latin name for what we refer to as a 'baby'?

What in the name of buggery fuck has that got to do with anything? Also, have a look at what Mary Beard says about Roman culture before you bring them into a thread about feminism, sheesh!

One of my objections to the stance being taken by Baracker is that I think it is a supremely unhelpful agenda to push for.

The case she linked to was a termination at 39 weeks. It was illegal but if termination up to the point of labour were permitted that women would go through a birthing process. At some point the life of the foetus would have to be ended. Does anyone think the legislators of NI, Ireland, Poland , Venezuela would ever sanction the possibility of that? Or pay any attention to a campaigner with that agenda? It is just going to harden opposition of those who are implacably opposed and worse, possibly sway those who might otherwise have accepted abortion with limits in the wrong direction.

It's important also to remember that late abortions are incredibly rare, and almost invariably because of catastrophic disability or great risk to the woman

Which are legal in the UK but what Baracker wants is abortion for no reason with no time limit.

Some one a while back disputed that medical staff would refuse to carry out late abortions. On a previous thread I looked up the position in Canada which in theory has no upper limit - in practice women are crossing the border to the U.S. because doctors will not carry them out. I think , but would need to check "late" abortions refused were well within the UK limit.

Bullshit, the location is the woman.

Then take the baby out of the woman and let it live! What gives you the right to kill it?

And for all you people banging on about it only being a 'foetus', were you aware that 'foetus' is the Latin name for what we refer to as a 'baby'?