Government announcement on petition to ban medical intervention to change gender for under 18s

BigDeskBob, sadly, there are certain factions who are encouraging and pushing this among teenagers in state schools.
I am asking whether this is happening in Eton and Harrow.

Also, why is it seen as necessary to block puberty? A prepubescent 16 boy is no closer to a 16 girl than a 16 year old boy going through puberty.

I wonder how the medical profession know what the long term effects of puberty blockers are on children? In the past they have been given for a short time to pause early puberty, not to halt in the long term. I also imagine the social aspects are hard for these children - it must be very isolating to be the only child in your social group to not go through puberty. It must contribute to them feeling different to others.

And I am also asking, is this teenage transgender meme being promoted among state schools but not private schools?

But not so much among elite private schools, such as Eton? Can we ask what is Eton School's policy on transing/transitioning?

Thank you for your answer, genuinely. I appreciate it!

But why are you so in favour of your daughters losing their protections?

Yes 2, both born girls and still happily girls/young women. Whats that got to do with the facts?

Yeah. Giving drugs to healthy children. Sounds reasonable to me.

mummybear701 - have you actually birthed and raised any children?

My understanding was children can only get puberty blockers before 16 (reversible apparently), sex hormones after 16 and surgery after 18. Sounds reasonable to me. Keeping a child pre pubertal up to 16 would not be done lightly. And any of those things require a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, not a young person or parents say so.

I was confused about difference between blockers and actual hormones and it seems like lots are.

It has been some years since I read the MRAs advocating drugs to pregnant women to ensure a manly man birth or a girly girl birth.
I wanted to think that ethical doctors would refuse but now I see that there are fewer ethical doctors than I had hoped.
A local man's entire surgical practice is removing little girls breasts.

I should think Hugh's theory is incredibly transphobic.

Given that trans people have existed for centuries, before drugs were ever administered to pregnant women.

TRAs, autogynephiles and people with gender dysphoria are not that way because of antenatal drugs but because of complex reasons around societal expectations of gender compounded by serious mental health issues. I suspect you're muddying the water Hugh.

HughE

Intersex people have got nothing to do with transgenderism. And I was reading today, yet another plea by intersex people to stop using them.

They are actively against surgery. They do not want to be associated with an ideology that is pro surgery.

How does your theory account for autogynephilia?

An exclusively male fetish. And not characterised by femininity at all, quite the reverse.

Most AGP individuals are extremely masculine, pre feminising hormones or surgery.

I.e. if the "transgender" stuff is being pushed in state schools, but not in elite private schools - then, what does that tell us?

I am wondering if this is a social class thing, too.

Are Mermaids etc. being encouraged to peddle their stuff in elite private schools as well? Or just in state schools?

Because that would also have a very, very different interpretation

Transgender advocates conflating of intersex with transgenderism is part of what has caused so much confusion.
At a time when doctors no longer try to chemically and surgically alter intersex infants, we see transgender advocates encouraging the drugging and surgically altering of children who are not intersex.

Wow HughE. That’s so sad - like the thalidomide babies?

Could you link to the research if poss?

Also when did the use of these hormones start?

There are two ways medicine acts to change children's gender

That's a really odd sentence for starters...

There are two ways medicine acts to change children's gender that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread.

Firstly, intersex babies and babies with abnormal genitals are routinely operated on by doctors to give them normal-appearing male or female genitals. Some of those surgeries include full sex reassignment (usually male to female, because it's much easier to surgically construct a vagina than a penis).

If you look, the internet is full of horror stories from people who were put through these unconsented cosmetic genital surgeries, by doctors playing God. In many cases, the sex doctors chose for the baby subsequently turned out to be the wrong one. Even when it wasn't, the people put through these surgeries often end up with so much nerve damage and loss of sensation that it's impossible for them to enjoy sex later in life.

oiiinternational.com/2574/intersex-genital-mutilation-igm-fourteen-days-intersex/

The second thing doctors have been doing is to administer high doses of synthetic female hormones (estrogens and progestins) to pregnant women, as treatments for preventing miscarriages and premature births. Many of these drugs have been shown to be capable of altering the trajectory of sexual development in animals, sometimes spectacularly so. For instance, at least two of these drugs (diethylstilbestrol/DES and ethisterone), are capable of completely overriding genetics in fish, and producing all female (or all male) fish populations.

There is evidence that they've also produced abnormalities of sexual development in human beings. I've found a number of case studies in which ethisterone, or a slightly modified version of it called norethisterone, were shown to have induced male development in female babies. The case studies all focus purely on genitals, however having now chatted online to several genetically people who were prenatally exposed to ethisterone or norethisterone, they show signs of having undergone male brain development. Two of the people I've talked to are FTM transgender.

Meanwhile, DES has long been rumoured to be associated with MTF transgender, and in the one study of DES and gender that's ever been conducted, 150 out of 500 DES "sons" identified as women rather than men. Many of the DES exposed natal males I've talked to show signs of physical feminisation too (in particular, a type of body structure called "eunuchoid habitus", that is usually associated with intersex conditions, and makes you look a bit like a cross between a man and a woman).

DES, ethisterone and norethisterone were all discontinued for use in pregnancy decades ago, however other synthetic female hormones remain in use. There's one in particular called hydroxyprogesterone caproate, that has feminising properties and certainly looks like it's being given in doses high enough to interfere with normal male development.

I'm reading this with dismay, but on a medical point, hysterectomy is a very serious operation, and has lifelong risks for the women following.

DickTERFin

I honestly don't get it. If a woman doesn't want any more kids, she signs a damn form, and if she regrets it later, too fucking bad.

People make decisions they wish they hadn't made all the bloody time. They're allowed to.

If that's not a demonstration of the absolute control of women's fertility, I don't know what is.

When feminists talk of the patriarchy manifesting itself as the oppression of women through control of their reproductive labour, people go into a massive eye roll.

But there it is, right there.

I want to know if they are going to advocate giving diet pills and liposuction to anorexics and amputate limbs from children suffering BIID?

I think it is Tanner stage 2.

i suppose they want girls to reach full height?

I think the procedure is for girls to start their period before blockers are given. But isn't the average age something like 12? That's a long time to be on blockers.

And yes to it being very male focused.