This is what Helen from Mermaids writes about MN feminist posters

Dull and old. How old was the child?

"or have given cross sex hormones to a 15 year old? "
Thanks for that link Flaps...........and thank goodness that that 'Doctor' is being investigated. I mean, cross-sex hormones 'only' supposed to be at 16, and 'only' when they are sure -- then they stop taking them after 3 months and decide they are non-binary? Okay, I can understand an adult female taking T for a while, deciding they weren't really a lesbian, stopping after a while because they have decided that the changes that have happened are enough for now..........they are an adult, hence have the right to make their own mistakes and discoveries.

But a child who sounds severly dysmorphic -- the only message I'm getting out of that story is in terms of treating that dysmorphia, it isn't working! And we won't be able to find out what does work if all we get from Mermaids is the blockers then hormones, transition ASAP. Although perhaps an incresing number of those transitioning to non-binary will just confuse the issue so much....................Since the standard trans narrative of laydeebrain or blue-boy-brain doesn't work any longer when non-binary comes in.

At some stage, this will be shown up for the massive child abuse scandal that it is, but how many children will have been irreversibly harmed and sterilised by the time that happens?

No hun. It's a well known fact that M and S only exists to keep the riff raff out of Waitrose grin

its funny cos its true

That's terrible. I am planning to retrain as a social worker, and wonder what sorts of minefields I'll be stepping into.

yes very recently, within the last year or so anyway.

That is horrific DullAndOld. Was that recent?
I would have hoped after the Re J (a minor) judgment in 2016, Social Services would know better than listen to unprofessional lobby groups such as Mermaids.

Why have social services not been involved when parents have taken their child abroad to be castrated, or have given cross sex hormones to a 15 year old?

Mermaids' advice and behaviour increasingly seems to go counter to established expertise from the Tavistock GIDS and the NHS on this matter, and they seem to be doing and advocating irreversible damage to children,

" there is talk of social services getting involved where parents don't affirm gender identity,"

this already happened to someone I know of. The child was taken into foster care until mother "came round" to the fact that he was a girl...
and no I did not make that up, it wouldn't be possible.

Given there is talk of social services getting involved where parents don't affirm gender identity, I must admit to alarm bells ringing here. Educated, middle class women are better placed to deal with social service involvement, and if it was a situation where Mermaids were involved, would stand a good chance being able to tell all concerned to fuck off successfully.

Why do Mermaids dislike middleclass educated mothers in particular?

Its something that does make me uncomfortable.

Uneducated working class, working mum sticking my oar in here to say fuck you Mermaids, I wouldn't let you within ten feet of my daughters 👍

I only managed to get 3 mins into that TED talk and I had to turn it off.

Waffle waffle, bit of innuendo, waffle waffle, how can anyone one possibly tell if I’m a man or a women - it’s so mysterious, waffle waffle, more innuendo, conflation of sex and gender, waffle waffle”.

I watched it, with as open a mind as I could, and I'm totally with you on it. There were some bits that really annoyed me too. And the same bullshit junk science that all TRAs push uncritically.

I occasionally buy the odd Cottage Pie from Marks and Spencers. Does that make me middle class?

No hun. It's a well known fact that M and S only exists to keep the riff raff out of Waitrose

I only managed to get 3 mins into that TED talk and I had to turn it off.

“Waffle waffle, bit of innuendo, waffle waffle, how can anyone one possibly tell if I’m a man or a women - it’s so mysterious, waffle waffle, more innuendo, conflation of sex and gender, waffle waffle”.

The self agrandising seems to be a standard characteristic of TIM’s.

They mostly all claim to have an IQ of a bajillion, can hack into super computers, invent time machines, have psychic abilities and Jack Bauer like agent training. All this on top of looking hawt, 47 screaming orgasms in a row, doing womaning better than women and being able to gestate humans in their non-female bodies. Oddly though they seem to struggle with logic, sentence construction and in this case, basic grammar... if it’s a quote, you use quotation marks you ding bat.

It’s mostly the ravings of fantasists.

It's so incredibly sexist though isn't it. I mean surely this whole supporting all women and being inclusive thing should involve not slagging off women. There's enough sahm/wohm/breast/bottle nonsense as it is. Surely inclusivity is accepting and not being horrible about women as life choices.
Also, and this really bothers me, where is the analysis of why women are staying at home (some by choice obvs) where is the thinking about the pay gap and childcare and all the really boring shit that we have to put up with while men generally don't have it as bad.
This whole 'we' in tech is sad, it seems to be a comment that is completely blind to the reasons women aren't, and haven't been represented in stem.
FFS.
(Working mum, went to uni as a mature student while holding down two jobs, first in my family to have been to uni, from working class background, one cat)
Get lost with your sexism.

I disagree with the 'stuck in the wrong body' but many people experience body dismorphia about all sorts of physical features, and that is very challenging for them to deal with.

wobbles

Ive just watched it and totally agree with the majority of what she says.

The pink / blue rubbish that young children are subjected to is extremely restrictive. I didn't realise how much till I had a son. Everything said in this though, is at odds with the gender spectrum image mermaids use which reinforces gender stereotypes.

It reaches beyond identity as it categorically affects some girls achievement in stem and maths and there is an issue for boys within the arts (see work by the Campaign for Drawing and many other bloggers such as the Artful Parent on art and boys). See the bbc documentary last year, "no more boys and girls."

Regarding brains. I believe we are still overly rigid in our thinking about this and there are as many studies disproving a difference in men / women/ boys / girls as there are that prove it. (There was a good bbc documentary about it a few years ago: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04knbny)

The brain is so plastic in a neurotypical person I simply can't see how we can accurately discount the impact of the very social stereotypes Rikki talks about affecting brains. There's supposedly no difference at birth in brains. At the same time, baby boys apparently respond more/ differently to fast moving images. Young boys learn to read better if they can move more. Is that innate or social? And you can always find exceptions to the rule. So why pigeon hole?

I think that there are issues with the way we talk about 'spectrum'. It isn't a line. For gender or ASD. The links below show a better way of describing the spectrum for ASD; I think it could go further and be a 3D sphere from all my experience within autism. And I think we need to think about 'gender,' that social construct and 'brains' in a similar way, but not linked to colours or sex. Multifaceted. So yes I have superb spatial awareness skills often associated with 'male brains' (I put this down to Lego) and also other elements that might be associated with 'female' brains - it's too diverse to pigeon hole. It is significantly harder for a man/ boy to be seen as feminine by society though, which is the crux of the issue as Rikki says.

This would be, in fact, completely non binary, as there really should be no link to anything as being only for men or women - unless it is to do with the functioning of their medical biological sex. Which is from conception.

Sex is completely different as Rikki says. Sex is binary, with a tiny amount of intersex people in the middle. The gendered world young children are exposed to us so confusing. There will be people with true dysphoria, but we know the stats show most realise they're happy with their bodies when they work it all out and may decide they are gay. Take away the ingrained stereotypes and people can be who they are happily.

(I hope this makes sense; my brain is very visual and lateral. Brains are awesome...)

the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

I occasionally buy the odd Cottage Pie from Marks and Spencers. Does that make me middle class?

What I do know is that Mermaids is nothing but a sham. If I had a child who was purging I'd take them to a doctor who would refer me to psychiatrists and doctors who treat eating disorders. I would not go to a charity run by anorexics who encourage anorexia. The same goes for gender dysphoria. Encouraging puberty blockers and surgery where your genitals are chopped up is extreme when the issue is mental just as extreme as starving yourself to death because you have an altered view of your body and what it should be. GD should not be given validity. This charity is in schools, teaching GP's (laughable but utterly shocking) and advising politicians. Scary stuff.

Wobbles, I have an open mind and was keen to avoid the taint of prejudice towards anyone "stuck in the wrong body ". This is a phrase from someone I knew in my 70s childhood.
The more I discover about Mermaids and the like the more I see that, in fact, I'm not the one with a closed mind about women and trans issues.

Ah yes, feminism, that movement well known for being all about being a stay at home housewife and living off your husband's income

I thought that was a tongue in cheek comment? The point being the original tweet basically said this.

At one point, there was a big kerfuffle on Twitter and some supporters/members of 4th Wave Now were absolutely certain that Helen had created a sock account, befriended several of them, and attempted to get real world information about them. Obviously, I personally can't confirm this, but I saw the account in question and it was very sealion-y.

I wouldn't trust anyone from Mermaids with my shopping list. And it's my conviction that this "charity" will, at some point, collapse in an almighty scandal.

Rikki Arundel supports Mermaids and gives talks and educates different organisations about gender identity/Trsns isdues. I think it’s good to open up to all voices to try and understand different perspectives- and this is actually a very good talk/presentation (or whatever). This is what is being taught to people, possibly our kids too. I’d say try and watch with an open mind.

m.youtube.com/watch?a=&v=IFBU7h7fqLc&feature=youtu.be

Oh is it? I didn't know there were two of them

CapnHaddock

I thought that was a different Helen entirely?