This is what Helen from Mermaids writes about MN feminist posters

Their rent-a-cause vertue signaling allys will be on facebook missions to bring down Asda for, oooh, a week and a half? (They will have nipped in for bog roll, thats okay though so long as theyve "spead awareness" of the cause)

Meanwhile Asdas profits are just fine...

I am sure ASDA are terrified at the prospect of losing like 10 customers. Might make them bust

I've been boycotting ASDA for a few years because Walmart are a bunch of shyster. However, I am well aware that ASDA could not give two fucks about it and I am sure they won't be wetting their pants over this either. I do it (along with boycotting a load of other corporations) for my own peace of mind not because I'm delusional enough to think I can "take down" a massive corp.

Ha! So if you're a woman who has had a child, you will not have met the same people that others meet. Hilarious opinion of women! Poor, stupid, impressionable women with no critical reasoning... luckily a trans woman has noticed our sad cause.

I know, right. I worked for years in the West End before having kids. Trust me I have seen it all but of course, once I grew people inside me and joined Mumsnet I became parochial and in need of exposure to the "real world".

I self harmed as a child, still have the scars now. I actually got to the point where I was cutting seriously, and my father saw it all and got me help. I started doing it as it was suggested by a friend that it could help with the angst I was feeling (normal teenage angst, tbh) as it helped her feel better. Oddly enough it DID make me feel better. But it was definitely a social contagion, there were many of my friends did it because others did. Most was superficial, luckily. Me and some friends went a little bit further though and we could have been categorized as suicidal I guess. There seems to be other forms of self harm and social contagion these days though, forms that could actually damage you for the rest of your life rather than just leave you with a few scars.

all you read are the most horrific things

Horrific things?

You mean like facts, and evidence? Almost all of which comes directly from TRA lobbyists?

It’s a clever strategy they’ve employed, if you’re a mum & you use mn it’s likely to be your first introduction to trans people & all you read are the most horrific things, with no preconceptions there’s nothing to challenge their bias

Also as for this, why on earth do those who support it all not speak up? They could easily lay out their arguments against ours, this should be easily done if we are all just raging transphobes no? Should be easy to show us up as that with your superior logic and facts? No takers? Surprising eh..I wonder why that is

I am sure ASDA are terrified at the prospect of losing like 10 customers. Might make them bust.

TIMs can assert whatever they like about tech , but without two particular actual women - namely Ada Lovelace and Heddy Lamarr - none of that would work , and the particular TIM who said it , wouldn’t have either computers or WiFi to promulgate his fuckery .

There have always been troubled children and teenagers, and sadly sometimes they have killed or otherwise harmed themselves. As far as I can make out, a lot of the children now identifying as transgender were already very troubled for other reasons. If they do harm themselves, the TRAs are very quick to say it's because they were prevented from being their true selves, or, if they have transitioned, that they were bullied for it. But there are often a lot of other possible reasons too, which get airbrushed out of the picture.

Some of them have suffered sexual abuse and trying to make sense of it have concluded that it happened because they were a girl (or boy) and if only they were a boy (or girl) it wouldn't have happened and they'd be safe.

Some of them are on the autistic spectrum, have experience of being bullied and struggle to make friends. For someone who is very rule-based I can see how it would be appealing to use gender stereotypes as a kind of rulebook for life, and maybe there's an element of making a fresh start with a change of gender and finally being a bit special and having other people say how wonderful they are.

Others have mental health issues, like so many other young people now. Constant tests and targets at school, constant pressure from social media as they enter their teens, far too much exposure to porn + hormones and normal teenage confusion > depression and anxiety and a desire to find an escape route. In this group, there's always been self-harm. I see transgenderism as another expression of that. Would it be reasonable to see wearing a binder as an alternative to cutting or restrictive eating?

It’s a clever strategy they’ve employed, if you’re a mum & you use mn it’s likely to be your first introduction to trans people & all you read are the most horrific things, with no preconceptions there’s nothing to challenge their bias

Ha! So if you're a woman who has had a child, you will not have met the same people that others meet. Hilarious opinion of women! Poor, stupid, impressionable women with no critical reasoning... luckily a trans woman has noticed our sad cause.

I stopped visiting several popular news websites due to the lack of debate and spreading of dangerous dogma. I really hope these publications are held to account for this one day. A lot more of my online time is now spent on mumsnet. I suspect I'm not alone. Advertisers would be pretty dumb to ignore this.

That is so sad, about playing with dolls and having them taken away.

Yes, I think this may happen with a lo0t of 'transkids'. Their parents want to stick to some ridiculous rigid sex stereotyping and when the child does not comply (which they won't..as they are fucking children and children have a range of interests) then suddenly this kid is trans. because of toy choice and clothing sense. I mean, when children 4 years old are being described as trans, it can't be anything else realistically can it?!

It was from the twitter link posted at 5.41...

I was thinking about this thread today, and getting more exasperated that I really should be.

I spent the with a friend who does a lot of work with teenage girls who have dropped out of education earlier than they should have done. The main reason for them dropping out isn't because they got pregnant (though there are some for whom that is the case), it's because they are the oldest daughter and are therefore expected to look after all the younger siblings while their parents work two / three / four jobs to try to make ends meet. It doesn't matter whether they have older brothers - being the older girl means that all the housework, cooking and child care falls to them.

The reason for my exasperation is twofold: firstly, that the girls involved in my friend's program are there because they are girls. Not because they have self-IDed as girls, but because they are biologicially female, therefore in the extremely sexist and patriarchal society we are living in (not in the UK), certain family jobs are absolutely their role. There are very limited options for them to escape these expectations, even if they are very talented and / or bright.

The second reason is that my friend is the sort of person that Helen appears to hold in contempt: she is a white, middle-class, university educated woman who is not currently in paid employment. However, it is exactly this background that gives her the skills, abilities and time to be able to help girls here who are not so fortunate. My friend is gender critical precisely because of what she has seen happening around the world to girls (before she lived here she spent a number of years in various bits of the Indian sub-continent)

So if you're still reading this, Helen, here's a question for you: what is your skin in this game? Why do you fear the middle class educated mother so much? What are you doing to break down the gender barriers that constrain so many of our children? Are you playing at this because it's easier to prattle on about children being "born in the wrong body" rather than acknowledge the significant damage that is done to girls around the world solely because they are girls? Mermaids is such a first world, privilege ridden organisation

Urgh

Mother issues much Helen?

Thinking more about the AG perspective and Mermaids, I think there is a general aversion to thinking about the possibly that a teenage male wanting to transition could wish to do so for this reason.

It's not something a parent wants to think about and something it feels uncomfortable (even as I type) to consider.

I'm very doubtful that if this was the case, the child in question would admit this nor would it be explored by family/counselling. Easier all round to go with the mind/body theory.

Having said that we know teenagers are being exposed to all sorts of online porn (with a whole number of serious repercussions wrt their attitude to sexual relationships and normalisation of a variety of sexual practices) and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that for some trans children this is a factor.

It's a difficult topic to talk/think about and therefore something Mermaids are unlikely to be challenged about.

Like, where were all of these suicidal kids 10 years ago when this was not a treatment regime/ Surely they would still have been suicidal then?

Excellent point. Where were they in my generation, or my parents or grandparents. If this is not a social phenomenon, why can't we find mass suicide in gender non-conforming youth from all across history?

Yeah, without the 12 million women who post on mumsnet, advertisers would have no platform.

We are their customers.

And there are very few women who visit this site who believes in a pink brain/blue brain. (it's not just the feminist boards, it's the widespread opinion).

Transactivists will get nowhere pressuring HQ. And I admire HQs determination to allow debate to flourish.

I think there was a time where they were unsure. But, it seems to me, as though they have correctly identified a zeitgeist. In tune with public opinion. You only have to take a look at any below the line comments, to see that.

And TRAs having a massive tantrum at them, would be all the proof they needed.

So they're now applying pressure to Mumsnet sponsors to cut ties with them and "stop funding hate".

LOL

It's so frustrating that a place where women discuss and share our thoughts and ideas is now being attacked because we are of course 'transphobic'

That is so sad, about playing with dolls and having them taken away. My youngest girl loved Thomas the tank engine and had trains she played with and wore boys clothes. She is now 12 and loves to wear black and experiments with make up and the amount of glitter drives me insane...
She just picks and chooses what she likes and doesn't care what people think. And that is how it should be.
But all of this, this all just makes me sad.

That insult is so male exclusive. I feel my entire existence on MN is being denied by Helen, this is literal violence!

I don't understand why anyone can possibly think that counselling a child, tackling stereotypes and making sure they do not take drugs that damage bones for ever is "hate".

It comes under child protection.

I am sure more sponsors will be lining up to take their place, if any pull out. The site seems to be busier now than I have ever seen it, and sponsors go on clicks and such, not the content posted. Surely most sponsors will agree with the gender critical stance anyway, given its the common sense approach.