Evidence of misandry on Feminist chat.

If prat can come up with how he can sort out male violence, I promise to remove the male tears sticker from the side of my bath. It will make my DH sad that I will, because he bought it for me, but I think it's the least I can do for prat when he solves 10s of 1000s of years of male violence simply by being nice.

Prat - how do you think the issue of male violence should be resolved? I promise never to use my Male Tears mug ever again.

Thanks for putting this so neatly. I couldn't find a sufficiently pithy formulation, and gave up.

If I'm completely honest, the 'male tears' thing grinds my gears, but it's an utter trifle in the scheme of things.

Do you have any other examples, prat?

prat

There are all sorts of feminists out there. Some who think men are women, some who hate men.

Why don't you take it up with them?

The feminists here at tend to be grown-up and rational. With arguments they can back up.

Men consistently come on here and try to tell women they're doing it wrong, drop in a bit of whataboutery and accuse women of man hating. And almost always end up with the not so novel conclusion that if only women said please, feminism would work better.

When that's patently bollocks.

It took 15 years to persuade men that there should be a law against marital rape. 15 years of lobbying, committees, minutes, campaigns, meetings, conferences.

The idea that men will concede any power or privilege whatsoever, as long as we ask nicely, is clearly, obviously and evidentially wrong.

And tedious beyond belief.

"I see these issues as affecting us as a human society rather than as two opposing 'female' and 'male' sides at war"

Do you think that your ability to view the issues like this is down to the fact that you are a man? In that you are not on the "side" that suffers the effects?

I'm going to make it my business to buy several male tears mugs. I will enjoy a nice cup of tea out of a male tears mug. And I'll also enjoy making the slave DH do the same.

Feminists aren't the problem, no matter what bullcrap misogynists spout.

Prat - how do you think the issue of male violence should be resolved? I promise never to use my Male Tears mug ever again.

The Goal

I definitely don't think that people like you are the problem.

The 'male tears' was a Tumblr trend a while back where prominent 'feminists' posted pictures of themselves drinking from mugs emblazoned with 'male tears'. It was intended as a mockery of men's issues, which IMHO just reinforces the whole toxic masculinity idea about it being unmanly to cry etc.

I know I probably come across as bitter and truculent at times, but it's likely because I see these issues as affecting us as a human society rather than as two opposing 'female' and 'male' sides at war - although I do understand the need to recognise and discuss male violence.

I will never understand why ordinary men get so defensive when women speak of the men who do attack and assault women on a regular basis.

Nor will I ever understand the need to minimize male violence and its effects on society. Male violence really is a worldwide epidemic. Yet saying this is being hysterical and man hati9ng. I don;t hate men, I have many men who I love in my life. But I do know that men (as a class) are a danger to women (as a class) and I do go through life wary and alert, especially if I am in a situation where I am alone with a strange man who I do not know. This does not mean I think all men will attack me, it means I know all men have the potential to,l and that a lot of them act on this. And that the ones who act do not come with a warning sign. If this (necessary) wariness means I hate men, or blame them all for the actions of a few (I would dispute strongly the 1% figure) then so be it.

We'll, pratcatcher, As long as you are doing all the things Patodp and Bertrand have suggested, and try a little positive discourse with the tumblr feminists you speak of, then job done.

Thanks for dropping by.

He disagrees with the definition of misandry.
I use the dictionary definition myself.

"I appreciate that it makes some people uncomfortable me being a male and coming on here and upsetting the apple cart by disagreeing with posters." Really? Have you disagreed with anyone? I'm struggling to find out what your opinions are. You're certainly not putting forward any solutions. And why on earth would anyone feel uncomfortable?

I appreciate that it makes some people uncomfortable me being a male and coming on here and upsetting the apple cart by disagreeing with posters.

I obviously cannot speak for other posters, but I definitely like people coming on to show the 'other side' so to speak. A debate is not a debate while everyone agrees. This is why I am desperate for someone who supports self-ID to come on and tell me exactly WHY they support it (not just a 'you are being big meanies' type reply)

I like my opinions to be challenged tbh. I am sure many others do too.

Never even heard of the word. I presume it is something that isn't approved of.

I imagine most feminists would be delighted if more men allowed themselves the luxury of male tears.

Well yes. Part of the issue is toxic masculinity. Men are not allowed to cry as its not 'manly' and such. I do not think any real feminist would have issues at all with men crying, its healthy. What is not healthy is bottling it all up and exploding in a huge rage instead.

Misandry isn't real
No institutional power behind it
Worry about something else

I appreciate that it makes some people uncomfortable me being a male and coming on here and upsetting the apple cart by disagreeing with posters.

I don't actually like arguments but the reason I feel they're sometimes necessarily is because this isn't just a harmless debate. Many posters on here are politically active and try to influence policy and legislation. Without a balanced discourse we risk ending up with situations like the one in American universities where young men were being expelled without any manner of due process based on little more than word of mouth and universities were allowed to operate almost as kangaroo courts.

Another poignant example is the recent trans madness where an ideology has been allowed to progress unchallenged to ultimately become a parodical situation.

A starting point would be to encourage sons to release emotion through tears rather than release emotions in aggression.

Consciousness raising can take many forms.
In the workplace do you take credit for female contributions? Do you speak over women? Do you assume a woman is less knowledgeable before knowing her position? Challenge pay gaps when they are known? If you are in a position to do so, do you automatically hire men over women who are equally qualified OR are you conscious of sexism?

Women experience all of the above, but told we're imagining it or it's brushed off.

Feminists "bang on" about lots of things that are uncomfortable to hear but it's vital otherwise nothing would happen.

Men at the BBC have actually taken pay cuts to make it fairer! Amazing. (Although mildly grumpy the women's pay didn't go up)

And I promise I will help you on board without any misandry at all.

I imagine most feminists would be delighted if more men allowed themselves the luxury of male tears. It's not something I'd sneer at. It would be a hell of a lot less destructive than the current situation where some men feel that the only negative emotion allowed is anger, because that doesn't make you "weak". I imagine there'd be fewer schools being shot up in America.

Thing is, the feminists on here (even if I disagree with them on some things) are not IMO the same breed as many of the more toxic Tumblr feminists who often seem to have a near-TRA level of bile. I'd imagine that you may not be in the circles where you'd come into contact with them.

I have literally never heard the term 'male tears' except on this thread, and on a thread about feminism on another site. On there it was brought up by a man who said the phrase was common among feminists as feminists just hate men and blame them for the worlds ills (erm, no just for male violence) and that talking about 'male violence' makes ordinary men feel attacked and then ordinary men turn to hating feminists too. I made the point of my husband not getting butthurt when I talk about male violence as he knows he is not one of the men I as talking about and I was told that my husband DID feel attacked however I have 'trained' him into being submissive, that he will be upset and seething at me in his head though

Sounds quite like the current house arrest/curfew type of tagging and not a bad idea.

How about we go ahead and chip/ankle bracelet anyone who commits a violent crime of any description, and they need to go 3-5 years with no incidents to have it removed?

You could have an app letting you know if anyone was chipped/braceleted is nearby, who they are and what they did so you could give them a wide berth.

But the OT is about misandry in feminism...

I recognise misogyny when I see it. And I see no reason why I should be required to engage constructively with a misogynist or take into any account what a misogynist has to say.

I see misogyny when a man arrives on a feminist board, lecturing women who are discussing male violence among themselves about how they are not doing it correctly in his view.

I do not see misogyny when a man arrives on a feminist board and says, "What can I do to help?"

Here are some ways to help:

acalltomenuk.org.uk/

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/men.php

“I was responding to a question of what I thought should be done”

And your response was to get rid of “Male Tears” mugs. OK. What next?