Do you personally believe there is a war on women?

Yes, I believe there is a war on women. It has been going on at least since the ancient Assyrians introduced anti-female laws, thousands of years ago.

One of the books that alerted me to the extent of misogyny in the modern world is "The War Against Women" by Marilyn French, published in 1992, so phrases like "war on women" or "war against women" are not new.

If men as a class have been in perpetual violent conflict with one another for the entirety of human history, what is the roadmap for correcting this?

So Larry if men are acting as they do because they are being told they are rubbish etc. what was the explanation for how they acted in 1AD, 5AD, 1000Ad, 1500AD etc. etc. ?

It is this kind of sarcastic belittling that demonstrates why we are where we are.

But if this isolated echo chamber makes you feel good, go for it.

Far better to revel in ‘victimhood’ than to really try to effect change.

"Do I interpret larry's posts correctly? Uppity women have been trying to steal power off men recently. They've only themselves to blame when men start to slap them back down again."

That's how I understood it.

You are either paranoid or just need to buy yourself a dictionary. War is really not at all the right word.

Given how vastly larger the numbers of men who assault/kill one another are relative to the comparitively smaller numbers of women (worldwide 78.7% homicide victims are male for example). I'm tempted to say the war being fought is a civil war amongst men themselves.

Violent porn is what men do when they are treated the way girls have been treated for generations? That's an interesting take on masculinity.

Men are not taking anything from the Radical Feminist playbook; they are acting out a vile parody of how they interpret feminism.
Thats not the same thing.

Do I interpret larry's posts correctly? Uppity women have been trying to steal power off men recently. They've only themselves to blame when men start to slap them back down again.

What's that quote about if you've traditionally been in charge, equality feels like oppression.

Italian,

I frequently talk to teenage girls. They share what they choose to.

I appreciate that they have it tough too.

That is why open dialogue is important.

Why won’t you talk to teenage boys?Speaking to them is not allowing them to control the conversation, in fact quite the reverse. Them listening to you and the reverse might be good for all concerned.

when women were objects/chattel

Thank you for replying. I did not see it when I posted.

@larrygrylls I won't be talking to teenage boys so either point to your sources or accept I'*m not convinced.

We don't run society on the views of teenage boys, oh wait.....

Have you talked to teenage girls who feel sexually harassed at school?

"That is a chicken and egg question. Who knows which came first? However pretending that there is no connection between ignoring and drowning out male views and unpleasant male behaviour is equally unhelpful"

Men's violent behaviour originates in society when so.en wee objects/chattel so it is clear it has not come from any current phenomena IMHO.

Where are men silenced?

@RedToothBrush the violence and control does not only come from white middle class men.

There are class struggles and there are race struggles.

But no one is making porn exclusively about working class women. It's not only black women who fear walking home at night alone. It's not only women of one religion who can be abused or even killed by their families for dating the wrong man; or for dating a girl.

Yes boys too can be punished for bringing 'shame' on a family but somehow the faithfulness or virginity and purity of women and girls is used as a measure in society.

Girls and women who 'fail' are punished. Even in some cultures women and girls who are raped!

It's not only poor women who are oppressed although poverty does make it worse.

@larrygrylls where do you see men and boys in society being silenced? Do you have teenage sons? Are you male?

Can you explain where this 'silencing' specific males comes from?

Millennium of silencing and constraining women and girls that has not produced anything like the same violence from women and girls, as displayed by men and boys.

Is it possible that 'silencing' or 'constraining' (my words based on what I think you are saying, correct me if I am wrong, please) of men and boys has made them behave as they do?

Don't answer if you don't want to.

Don't tell us it won't change, it can change. And it is, IMHO, one of the clearest symbols of the war on women!

My thoughts exactly Italiangreyhound. I have often joked about whether the WWW was released primarily to the public specifically to control and subjugate women through sexual degradation.

Porn used to be controlled and only supplied by licensed Adult shops. It thereby gave the impression that this was slightly niche and unacceptable. It has now switched to women are prudes if they don't let their DH/ DP indulge in anything they want online whenever they want to! It just seems if you follow the trajectory of women's equality you can also see the proliferation and distrubution of porn 24/7 in any home with little regard to whether children, teenagers or young adults can access it.

It is global indoctrination.

Italian,

That is a chicken and egg question. Who knows which came first? However pretending that there is no connection between ignoring and drowning out male views and unpleasant male behaviour is equally unhelpful.

Talk to some male teenagers, allow them to express their views and you will find the evidence.

@larrygrylls have you got any evidence that "They are told st schools that they are rubbish and that they should be ‘more like the girls’, told that they are sec pests for being teenagers and told that they are responsible for the violence in the world."

I'm not doubting some teenagers, boys and girls, get the message they are rubbish at school. But you seem to be blaming the bad attitude about males for their bad behaviours. But we've got millennium of men behaving badly so which came first?

Yes @Thisusernamethingistricky I wanted to shout at the radio last night! The presenter kept talking about abuse of power and inappropriate sexual actions by people in power in aid charities working with vulnerable people. It's not that.

It's abuse of power and inappropriate sexual actions largely by men in power in aid charities working with vulnerable people (who I am fairly certain will be largely women and children).

Why the fuck can some men not leave some women and children alone, especially vulnerable women and children?

Why are scientists not investigating this?

Yes, NAMALT, we know! Buy if a high percentage of a certain cell in our bodies turned deadly, scientists would be investigating the ass out of it!

"So you see the kickback, the disgusting violent porn, the whole ‘trans’ thing."

Isn't that a war on women? When men aren't happy with their lives they make women suffer.

But I don't believe that we have violent sexual abuse images online because boys are told to sit still at school.

Yes and no. I see it more as regression to the mean, sadly. As a child of the sixties I have benefited from some of the best years for women, but historically we have always had the shitty end of the stick and what I am seeing is a pushback from men (as a class) who never wanted to give any ground anyway. Maybe I'm just a pessimist.

@Patodp "Unfortunately you can't control or "sort out" internet porn. So what can we do."

Why not? We could as a society legislate against it, but more importantly as parents we could ensure our sons and daughters see it as uncool, lame, pathetic and weird (which it fucking is) to watch the degredation and de-humanistion of another human being.

Just as we stopped having people put in stocks or publicly flogged or hung, and stopped public tours of lunatic asylums.

Society doesn't need to be this way, it is this way because we allow it. We have allowed porn to become 'normalised'. Not all men watch porn. Not all women agree with it.

Don't tell us it won't change, it can change. And it is, IMHO, one of the clearest symbols of the war on women!

Do you think the British public would stand for a moment for people watching films about animals being forced to copulate and seeing simulated violent action against animals? They would not.

So maybe in many men's minds and other women's minds some women's value is less than pets because of the myth that women freely enter into pornographic work and the so called sex industry.

I was going to say no. But reading the thread makes me realise that this would be because I don't want it to be true. I wish it wasn't a war on women, but the facts speak for themselves.

choco thank you for the book recommendation 'war on women', I have just ordered it for dh and I to read.

And yes there is a war on women and the sad thing is that the little bit of ground we have 'won' over the last 100 years is being taken away from us. Ironic it is that we are celebrating 100 years since the suffrage movement.

I feel like I've been at war for most of my life. On a personnel level I've overcome slightly because I no longer have any men in my life.

Globally my heart breaks for all the women that don't have my luxury.

Yes I do. Ten years ago I’d have said no, but I think women really are under siege.

*From increased public religion for example after the mass sexual assaults in Europe at new year women were told to cover up rather than finding the perps - people would rather infringe on a woman’s right to move freely than tackle Male religious aggression.

• TRA movement seeking to erase women

• increased media sexualisation

• reproductive rights under threat in USA, Poland etc.

If you want to read some truly hateful anti feminist bile then go and read the DM comments under any article that even vaguely touches on female rights. It’s sickening.

Otter,

The disenfranchised feeling men are a completely different set of men than the Bullingdon club et al; they are ridiculously over entitled! They are, however, a minuscule fraction of manhood, far less than 1%.

I think the trans movement should be a wake up call to all of those who believe silencing unpopular (or even abhorrent) views is the way to a fairer society.

Even this site has a set of ‘myths’ that are banned. Yes to banning personal attacks, absolute no to those banning opinion, even if wrongheaded.

It is really important to allow young men and women to speak about their wants and needs in an honest and open manner, whilst retaining respect for one another.

If that does not happen, this polarisation will only get worse.