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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help advise and shape a Campaign for the Right to Choose Sex Segregation... Basil?

113 replies

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 13:56

After discussing on other threads the problems of
-using the language,
-reacting to the advances and
-responding to the priorities and concerns of those who seek to abolish women's rights - in other words, allowing MRAs and TRAs set the terms of the debate, there is a risk we are not taking the opportunity to set out our own demands.

So I thought we could set one out.

I brought together some thought and discussion on MN to create a document, setting out a simple demand for the 'Right to Choose Sex Segregation' - a right that is clearly being taking away from us by letting people opt into the services and facilities designated for the opposite sex. Many thanks to everyone who has responded with suggestions/corrections so far.

This doesn't cover the worrying transing of kids deliberately, in order to keep a clear focus of its aims.

It also avoids contentious terms such as 'gender' or 'transgender' and avoids heady intellectual language to keep it as inclusive as possible.

My current thoughts are to

  • Create an attractive, printable PDF to raise awareness to distribute during actions.
  • Use it as a basis for a widely circulated petition
  • Target businesses for twitter/letter writing campaigns, boycotts

However, I don't want to go down the road of Caroline Craido-Perez or Laura Bates and be the face of anything. Is Basil still here? How did it work staying anonymous with 'We Believe You'?

I'd love to have any thoughts, feedback, next steps or suggestions to make this an empowering resource for people who want the option for sex-segregation/ same-sex spaces.

Big thanks in advance.

OP posts:
Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:44

Speculation looks like bigotry

YY. Avoid if possible.

Elletorro · 22/02/2018 22:44

A hook

Let’s talk about sex

Elletorro · 22/02/2018 22:43

Once you are done guardian I’ll be sending a copy to my MP. It doesn’t need to be snazzy for that.

Also maybe the Fabian society.

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:42

If you put it on fair play for women you would have a web address to link to. If you printed up stickers you could sell on eBay to cover costs- I would buy a job lot and keep them in my handbag for slapping up when out and about!
If you did stickers you would need a good ‘hook’ to get people to notice. Something like: would you be comfortable with a man in the next cubicle? If the answer is no... blah blah blah

Elletorro · 22/02/2018 22:42

Hi guardian

I think I would remove “drop these proposals” it’s kind of floating as you haven’t defined what proposals you are referring to. Plus it’s too late - men get transgender protections just by proposing to transition.

I’d also remove speculation about why the prisoners say they are trans. Maybe say instead something along the lines that there are considerable worries that they doing so in bad faith and that there are no safeguards. Speculation looks like bigotry

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:38

Excellent.

If I read it I would be thinking yes yes I agree but what do I do now to support this?

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:37

Maybe even getting a QR code for it - and having stickers printed up Smile

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GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:36

Yes - I wondered if it could have a kind of web page of its own - or if I could seek support from other groups to put their logos on it...

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GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:33

How about this ?

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Ereshkigal · 22/02/2018 22:29

How about including voyerism under the sexual gratification bit.

YY. Agree with this. It's looking good!

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:25

It would be great to have a sticker with a link to the document that could be stuck in the back of toilet doors.

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:22

And does it need a suggested action or ‘how to support this campaign’ at the end?

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:17

It’s looking very good now👏👏👏

How about including voyerism under the sexual gratification bit.

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:15

Thanks for all your amazing input here everyone. I have just updated it here

I held my nose and used the word 'gender' (but did '/body' - does this work or does it confuse?)and also changed the opening page to take on suggestions in this thread and the original one it started on.

Any comments on how to improve welcome - also - any thoughts on how to best get it out there. I have a kind offer to put it on Fair Play website.

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Ereshkigal · 22/02/2018 19:00

One other thing if space allows, I would maybe include about teaching girls that they deserve to be able to set boundaries and to expect to be respected. Principles of consent type thing

Absolutely agree.

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 18:26

Yes Elle very true

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Elletorro · 22/02/2018 18:16

It’s great by the way.

One other thing if space allows, I would maybe include about teaching girls that they deserve to be able to set boundaries and to expect to be respected. Principles of consent type thing

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 18:15

Thanks Elle

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Elletorro · 22/02/2018 18:08

Hi guardian

On page 1 who does it affect?

I’d add rape and domestic abuse survivors who are what 1 in 4 women?

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 17:55

Just been doing a bit of mum stuff and will think how to update the doc again.

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Ereshkigal · 22/02/2018 17:12

I assumed it turned to gender dysphoria in order to allow any old fetishist or person who doesn't quite fit the stereotypes in under the trans umbrella?

Yes I'm pretty sure this came about from trans lobbying.

Ereshkigal · 22/02/2018 17:10

I agree, I just think it won't be a major issue when the rest of it is so uncompromising.

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 17:09

'Body dysphoria' would be great if it is still understood....

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thebewilderness · 22/02/2018 17:07

Changing from BD like other mental illness to gender dysphoria seems to be what helped create this disastrous set of laws, Collidascope.

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 17:05

To be honest your doc is one of the best I've seen.

Agreed. That’s why I want it to be bulletproof.