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Original poster

Please help advise and shape a Campaign for the Right to Choose Sex Segregation... Basil?

113 replies

GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 13:56

After discussing on other threads the problems of
-using the language,
-reacting to the advances and
-responding to the priorities and concerns of those who seek to abolish women's rights - in other words, allowing MRAs and TRAs set the terms of the debate, there is a risk we are not taking the opportunity to set out our own demands.

So I thought we could set one out.

I brought together some thought and discussion on MN to create a document, setting out a simple demand for the 'Right to Choose Sex Segregation' - a right that is clearly being taking away from us by letting people opt into the services and facilities designated for the opposite sex. Many thanks to everyone who has responded with suggestions/corrections so far.

This doesn't cover the worrying transing of kids deliberately, in order to keep a clear focus of its aims.

It also avoids contentious terms such as 'gender' or 'transgender' and avoids heady intellectual language to keep it as inclusive as possible.

My current thoughts are to

  • Create an attractive, printable PDF to raise awareness to distribute during actions.
  • Use it as a basis for a widely circulated petition
  • Target businesses for twitter/letter writing campaigns, boycotts

However, I don't want to go down the road of Caroline Craido-Perez or Laura Bates and be the face of anything. Is Basil still here? How did it work staying anonymous with 'We Believe You'?

I'd love to have any thoughts, feedback, next steps or suggestions to make this an empowering resource for people who want the option for sex-segregation/ same-sex spaces.

Big thanks in advance.

OP posts:
Original poster
GuardianLions · 23/02/2018 08:39

Just checking in this morning - thanks everyone. Will look again in detail.

Regarding the document. It was created in Word the saved as a PDF because google reformatted it to look weird.

I have set it so that it cannot be edited or downloaded - to avoid sabotage or multiple versions. My thinking is that we should share it for download one at a time by pm to reformat or do the esthetic / flow stuff.

My feeling is that while it is still 'growing' i'll add more bits until we feel it is all in there and ready for streamlining.. that point about workplace toilets is great...

Gotta drop those kids off at school!

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 23/02/2018 08:27

YY to "validation"

MsBeaujangles · 23/02/2018 08:26

Also..... for the sticker idea, I like ‘Let’s talk about sex’. I also like ‘Sex matters’.

MsBeaujangles · 23/02/2018 08:20

Many thanks Guardians.
I think the document is good.
I expect that this has already been debated - but what about adding ‘validation’ to the list of why people want to access services?
Something like (5) To validate a belief that sex is not determined by biology. Some people believe that their sex is independent of their biologically determined sex characteristics. Some males think that feeling like, or believing they are, a women makes them a women (and vice-versa for males). They believe that you can be a women and have a penis or a man and have a vagina. They seek to use provision designed for the opposite sex in order to validate their belief that sex is not determined by biology/sexed bodies.
(NB This is not to be mixed up with intersex conditions where people are diagnosed with chromosome abnormalities)

ChattyLion · 23/02/2018 07:54

Brilliant, brilliant job guardian thank you for taking the time. I look forward to sending this to my MP in due course.
Just a couple of suggestions bearing in mind this doc is already great:

  • add to the title ‘ spaces and services’ or whatnot, to make clear what this is about
  • emphasis on choice is great. We are being stripped of choice.

-consider adding in the intro- where the reasons why are listed, in addition to some women ‘can only’ use single sec spaces- something to mention preference.
because as well as the excellent reasons you have given, any women just wanting not to share with men should be enough and shouldn’t need a qualifier or life experience as to why. ‘Preference not to’ is enough not want to be put at risk, made to feel uncomfortable or deterred from using spaces originally intended for women.

Eg in the toilet example, I don’t think you need to be a woman or girl in a vulnerable category to not want to share places where you are undressed or otherwise in a more vulnerable situation with men ( which is why you entered that supposedly more private space away from men and other people in general, because you need to put yourself in a place of privacy where there are other women only- there for equally personal and private reasons to themselves. )

  • can you mention women’s workplace toilets as a place where this is happening. This has happened to me and I am too afraid to speak up or question it. I consider myself to have been made vulnerable in those circumstances because my job and reputation would be at risk if I said anything against it.
  • I really like the way you have broadened the issue beyond toilets (which people can be quite dismissive of as an issue- even though it’s very important!). I thought the points about women-only spaces supporting fellowship, dating and in general the positives in free association and freedom of expression (in an environment with only your own sex) are all particularly well made.
Maplessglobe · 23/02/2018 07:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 23/02/2018 07:08

This is fabulous. I’m sorry, I’m a lurker, and late to the party, but I do wonder whether some of the language could be pared down further (for example “incarcerated” is a bit loaded and jarring, and mental health wards are mostly not locked) and long sentences broken into shorter ones for clarity/impact.

I’m not a professional writer by any means, but I do create and edit lots of semi-technical communications for my profession. I have to go to work now but I would be very happy to have a go this evening, for you to use, ignore or recycle.

I have no idea how to actually do this in google docs but it’s probably about time I found out....

I also agree to some extent about p4, but absolutely love the title which would perhaps be great worked into the first page as a hook.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 00:31

I love it.
But I think page 4 belongs in a different document.

GardenGeek · 22/02/2018 23:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Freshlylaidterf · 22/02/2018 23:49

Brilliant

Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 23:35

It is a google doc - do you have a google account? It should work if you are signed into your google account.

OP posts:
Maplessglobe · 22/02/2018 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 23:34

Certain - I am hoping a friendly graphic designer will swoop in Smile

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 22/02/2018 23:29

I agree, and care noting for graphic designer wrath as I am an artist.

Ereshkigal · 22/02/2018 23:25
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 22/02/2018 23:14

It's looking brilliant Grin

One tiny thing pedant klaxon text always looks better when it's justified both sides I think.

Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 23:11

interesting idea!

OP posts:
Elletorro · 22/02/2018 23:06

I would do the opposite of a boycott

I would deliberately run stocks down on a particular item. Get the style and beauty lot on board.

And then everyone returns said item. When they fil in the reason for return put the hashtag

Like sunglasses at marks and Spencers. Call the reverse boycott Peeping Tom

Elletorro · 22/02/2018 23:02

Hi guardian

Don’t change the proposals it works.

It’s just that the transgender provision in the Equality act has already opened the stable doors in that respect.

Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:59

Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:58

I think I would remove “drop these proposals” it’s kind of floating as you haven’t defined what proposals you are referring to. Plus it’s too late - men get transgender protections just by proposing to transition.

the proposals referred to are the bit that says:

A further cause for concern is the Women and Equalities Committee’s current proposal to enable people to legally register themselves as the opposite sex, very simply, without even needing to prove they have dysphoria in the near future – a process which will be wide-open to criminal abuse.
As part of these measures, concerningly there are discussions of removing the sex exemptions from the Equality Act. This will mean an end to sex segregation and give us no right to challenge people of the opposite sex in spaces nominally designated for our own.

I feel there should be something about the self-ID GRA, but not too much, as the main emphasis should be the businesses, etc who aren't using the sex exemptions. But who knows - in the current situation, the WOmen and Equalities Committee might suddenly go at it full tilt...

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 22/02/2018 22:57

It's brilliant Thanks

Lemonjello · 22/02/2018 22:50

Sterling work Guardian.

Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:46

ooh this all looks good

OP posts:
Original poster
GuardianLions · 22/02/2018 22:45

Sure.
Some ideas:
-Coordinated boycotts of particular businesses/institutions
-Signing a petition
-A hashtag
-Spreading the word

  • writing to your mp
  • find out more - Fair Play for Women, A Woman's Place, 4th Wave Now, Mayday for Women, Gendertrend, etc
-.....
OP posts:
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