middle-aged feminist

Oh TallulahWaitingInTheRain, that’s what I want to see on a poster!

he he he. They want to discredit us because they know we don't care about all their would-be silencing mansplainy crap. We've seen it all before.

• I'm a feminazi because I don't dress, speak or act to please men
• I'm a TERF (penis-exclusionary) when it comes to women's spaces and a TERF (lesbian ally) with respect to lesbian spaces
• I'm a SWERF (pimp- and punter- exclusionary) because I think women's right to choose sex work is less important than women's right to choose not to be prostituted
• I'm a carceral feminist because I think there should be genuine deterrents with respect to male violence against women
• I'm sex-negative because I only have sex when I feel like it and when the sex that's on offer is the kind I enjoy
• I'm shrill because I want to be heard
• I'm aggressive because I'm not going to shut up
• I'm angry because I'm angry

and I'm comfortable with all of that.

Women are the only demographic that gets more radical as they age.

I thought all the battles had been won in the 80's. I now see it's the same shit over and over again.

I thought my MIL was OTT with her new-found feminism when I was in my 20's.

I am now her...

Haha - yes to the young, attractive women thinking that they are considered equal ... that is until the new ones turn up or if the scales fall away (sexual harassment).

But really what about real old hags - Germaine - even further along the spectrum of being despised

Divide and conquer, it suits society AKA the patriarchy if young women don't pay too much attention to what older women say. So we all relearn each generation's lessons growing up.
Dismissing older peoples expwriences seems to be a feature of humanity but the deliberate omission of women's experiences and contributions from our societies narrative and history means women experience it to a greater extent.

I think women talking to each otger too much is a threat and making older women seem irrelevant is a strategy to counter that.

HubrisComicGhoul

I think that young attractive women are pandered to by men in our society. They believe that they are considered equal, when in reality, it's just that men want to have sex with them.

Absolutely agree with this.

Also there must be a biological imperative for young men and women to be nicer to each other to continue the species.

I can confirm that urge wears off with age....

“'I understand the gossip amongst retired women is that they resent the young under 30 for being so disrespectful towards them, lots of it wasn't like that in our day”

Gosh. Who do you understand this from?

You are not like other girls is part of the conditioning in the guise of a compliment.

I think that young attractive women are pandered to by men in our society. They believe that they are considered equal, when in reality, it's just that men want to have sex with them.

The older we get, the more invisible we become and we wake up one day to see that we are being ignored in favour of the pretty, young new girl and realise that we were never considered to be equal to men, just indulged as "favoured pets".

That's obviously a mass generalisation, but it syncs with what I and a lot of my friends have discovered since passing 35.

We crossed posts there. Yes and OJ has become a every wealthy individual exploiting society.

I understand the gossip amongst retired women is that they resent the young under 30 for being so disrespectful towards them, lots of it wasn't like that in our day.

I blame OJ and his gang dividing the nation, they spread misery in society. What a sad thing to be responsible for!

Conflict sells newspapers and magazines, or linkbait. My mum grandmum and I talked about this when I was 17 in 1963. They said it is one of the oldest unacknowledged divide and conquer strategies in their experience. It works even when we see the wires.

Bit of a straw man there surely Bertrand? Nobody said any other culture was perfect, only that they have different values and attitudes about older people.

It's rather ironic. Normally on MN people get comments hinting they're racist as soon as they post anything critical of a non-Western culture

The old are respected in my culture too. What it usually boils down to is that the young are supposed to do as they are told. The old lady is still less than an old man so no change there.

The old lady will often have to listen to the younger men (or very visibly take his side so that he stays on her side) but not the younger women.

The young women is bossed around by all.

The young men are kept in check by the old men - so that's a plus.

As a young woman, I really didn't like it!

My very intelligent and we'll read daughter truly beleives that there is no need for feminism in this day and age. She feels that legislation is there to protect us and that all the flights for that are over. We have laws and that's enough. If someone breaks a law by attacking a woman, not paying her enough or being disciminatory then we take them to the courts and they deal with it. Hence no more need for feminists to keep on fighting.

She agrees that in other countries that fight is not yet over.

I try to explain the concept of being socialised into certain roles etc and she just doesn't get it. Because that's not her expereince - becuase I brought her up to be what she wants to be.

So I think we all did too good a job. Our daughters all think they can do what they want, be what they want and that no one will stop them - becuase the law is now on their side. be cuase we taught them to be self reliant and strong.

No wonder they think feminism is dead...

I fully expect my daughter to be utterly shocked the first time she encounters the unfairness that is all around her. Then she might have a little more respect for us middle aged feminists and get why we haven't given up the fight.

Yes- the "indigenous people" who have everything sorted.....

I'm sure I've read something about older women being more valued in non-western cultures also - possibly native American culture?

I'm always sceptical about "the things are so much better in a culture/society that isn't mine" stance. Especially when the reference is to something as nebulous as "Native American culture"

Coincidence! On Radio Four Extra just now was an extract from 'The World Until Yesterday' by Jared Diamond on the subject of the treatment of the elderly in different societies. I didn't catch all of it so can't comment but will listen later.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01r9skn

I have only recently become a feminist, in middle age. Only now do I see how the whole world is set up for the advantage of men, and that speaking up about it leads to us being shouted down. When I was younger - well-educated, financially independent, child of a fiercely independent mother - I thought the battles had been won.

Now seeing what young women are supposed to find empowering - pornography, hyper sexualised clothing - it's just another way of keeping women in their place.

And identity politics is a prime example - transwomen are women- is just another (scary) example of men telling women what to think.

So what is wrong with middle aged feminists is that they are daring to call out the bullshit.

My favourite was Marie Le Conte saying "an older feminist" had asked why young feminists hated men so much, because obviously no feminist over the age of 25 has ever been called a "lesbo man-hater". Apparently they hold men to higher standards than we do/did.

What a steaming pile of crap.

Racists don't become BAME. Anti-semites don't wake up one morning to find they've become Jewish. But ageists will get old one day so I take some comfort in that.