My elderly parents peak transed today

phoenixtherabbit

*"They cannot come at the expense of women's rights"

Well there has to be a compromise
somewhere no?*

I find this confusing. Are you meaning to say here that women should compromise their rights? Could you clarify this?

When you say "compromise," what exactly do you have in mind? Who has to compromise what?

When you say people you mean men. I agree that women should have rights obviously but trans people are women and for the most part genuinely feel that way and will transition completely

Self ID, which requires nothing more than an assertion that one is transgendered to the opposite sex, as well as the absolute horror of what is being done to children is the material reality that shocks people awake to what the MRAs n the government are doing to women and children;s rights.

Not all, not my! Epic typo

The 'not all men' argument doesn't work. My all teachers, nursery staff, HCPs etc are paedophiles - but we still do background checks.

Rapists, murderers, violent arseholes don't advertise who they are. That's why we need laws.

Incidentally the argument used by gun ownership supporters in the us goes the same way. And it's kids getting hurt. Is that an acceptable compromise between people who need protecting and people who want their desires indulged?

Fuck those selfish fuckers and their egomania. And fuck anyone who says 'But what about THEIR feelings???'

Phoenix, there are a few old school transsexuals on the trans threads. They understand fully that the new wave of transactivists are actually damaging to their own safety. Whereas ye transsexuals of olde had to jump through the GIC hoops, the proposals for self-ID will mean there are no checks and balances in place. None. Zero. Nada.

People are campaigning to stop the headlong rush towards self-ID. It isn't hatred for trans people.

I know a good few transsexuals. Many have been living 'as women' for many years. They have been getting on quietly, not causing a threat to women. The new wave (of which I have been subject to... some) are a completely different kettle of 'DIAF cis-scum' fish. When they come in to your workplace to lecture a room full of women on 'how to treat me like I demand to be treated' when frankly, our every policy exposes women to danger and privileges trans rights, and I either get paid to continue the gender-agenda or can't pay my mortgage, something somewhere is very wrong.

None of them will talk. The #nodebate thing is ridiculous. Penises are not female. If I put a student with a penis and a student without a penis in a shared bedroom, one is going to get a big old surprise, and the other is going to preen to fuck because he got his own way, safe in the knowledge that the female student is a bigot and a transphobe.

I'm a girl guide leader. Thankfully we have a vast array of teenage transmen in our small town, and as yet, no teen Jazz Jennings. But if my son decides tomorrow he wants to join, and decides he's a girl, come to camp and sleep next to the other 15 year olds honey, you are whatever you say you are.

The process to get a GRC was so long because it was designed to show commitment and intent. If you remove the real life test and certification process before allowing transwomen into sex segregated spaces, there is literally no point in having sex segregated spaces. Why would you bother?

Either some spaces are required to be sex specific, or they are not. Gender specific segregation is utterly utterly pointless. No woman is afraid of a dress or a pair of hair straighteners, ffs, they don't want to be close quarters with penises when naked, ill, asleep, or vulnerable. And they don't want to compete against the natural testosterone, size and lever advantage in sports.

I don't really think that's too much to ask, is it?

Jeez.

“It’s not the real transwomen that are the problem”

Why not? They can still be hulking males in our communal changing rooms/showers and competing in our sports. Real TW still rape and murder etc. Those that really pass will use what facilities they want to. Many who look male but act respectfully and look as though they are trying will use loos snd eomen will mostly be polite and kind and not want to confront.

I just don’t understand the need to say “it’s not real TW - and Muscatto is a “real TW.”

Your happy to exclude genuine transwomen to keep out non genuine ones. Ok I can see why but how is that fair. Do they not deserve rights?

Somebody else said this on another thread but it's worth saying again. There's no such thing as a transwoman. They are just men.

But out of interest, what rights do you think these people should have, that they dont?

My elderly grandmother peak transed over Christmas. She was absolutely appalled that she may be expected to change in a shop changing room with a fully intact male. She said she wouldn't stand for it and would tell him exactly why. I wouldn't put it past her as she is a very formidable woman.

is 'peak transing' all and sundty akin to Jehovas' Witnesses work

You only need to mention a couple of things that have happened in real life and the peaking does its work for you. You don't even need to try.
Most people are simply completely oblivious.

Why should it be women who have to compromise, phoenix?

Why is it always women who have to accept shit and shove over, and make room?

Why can't the men?

Should we make transwomen use men's changing rooms and let them get raped instead of us? Is that ok?

How about no one gets raped and the focus shifts to male violence, and yes, that will have to include transwomen as they offend at the same rate as men. Source here

Exactly. I don't want to get changed at the swimming pool in the same room as my dad. He's lovely, would never hurt me, no fear there at all, it would just be weird and uncomfortable. Women are allowed to feel weird and uncomfortable about being naked in front of male people who we don't have a sexual relationship with.

I genuinely don't understand the 'you are tarring all transwomen with the same brush, calling them rapists' argument. You don't bristle at the fact that your husband or father aren't allowed into the women's changing rooms, and you know that they aren't rapists. We don't have sex-based segregation because we think all men are rapists or gropers, we have it because we know that some of them are, and that unfortunately they don't come with that fact etched across their foreheads.

No more floss for your bum! I'd dump anyone who insisted on that too, let him wear one if he thinks it's so great.

Phoenix, we aren't the ones creating the problem for the old-school dysphoria having transsexuals. The current blowback is the result of the trans umbrella being opened so wide that it now includes people who 20 years ago no psychiatrist would have allowed to transition. Eddie Izzard now says he's trans. Do you think he's a woman?

I explained it to my olds a year or so ago
They told me I was worrying too much and GRA proposals wouldn't get through
Now they're worried too!

Well there has to be a compromise somewhere no?

Feminists keep crying out for a separate space or option for trans people. Apparently this is transphobic. It's just logical.

Is 'peak transing' all and sundty akin to Jehovas' Witnesses work?

Well no I can't because I haven't researched it

No, but a lot of women here have. I'm not having a pop, but there are a lot of women here who really have a handle on this stuff, so coming here and just saying we're all bigots isn't fair, accurate or helpful.

Lots of us here started off as trans allies. Many/most of us still are. I'm an ally to the vulnerable people who are the collateral damage in the drive to pretend that transwomen and women are the same - lesbians, autistic girls, gender-non conforming children who would otherwise grow out of it if left alone etc etc. All of these populations are damaged by transactivism. Do you hate them?

Course you don't. But you're chucking them under the bus, make no mistake about it.

angrykittens Ah yes, I remember the discomfort of having to wear thongs every day because that's what my husband (ex) insisted on.
Now I have lovely big cotton granny pants and my bottom thanks me!

Not according to TRA's Phoenix - There is no compromise - It's shut up, call us women and let us do what we like otherwise you are a violent TERF bigot.

You understand they are the ones causing the conflict?

If transwomen want to use womens space to protect them from males then opening up women's spaces for any males who self identify as women is bonkers.

Also, phoenix, the proposed reforms would probably remove access to health care or support from trans people- or at least see them drastically cut. Because if all you need is to fill in a form, why Should the state fork out?

This means a lot of troubled young people in particular will be left high and dry.

No one wants to see distressed individuals be disadvantaged or discriminated against. But what EXACTLY is wrong with the system we have now?

What is the problem for which the GRA is the answer? Clue: men's rights activists

Should we make transwomen use men's changing rooms and let them get raped instead of us

Well seeing as women's spaces are heading to become free for all, transwomen will be equally at risk of being raped by any male preditor in women's spaces as women will.

Hurrah for equality.

Phoenix When I've been raped, hit, damaged and am incredibly vulnerable I need the support of women. I won't be able to talk or open up if a man is there however nice this particular man may be.

When I'm elderly and ill and feeling so low I'd rather be in a ward of other women.

When I'm banned from being near men who are not my family because of my religion I still want to swim, shop and lead an active life in my female only spaces.

When I'm an 11 year old and my body is changing and I'm all confused

and worried I don't want to go clothes shopping with my friends and see adult naked men watching us.

Well no I can't because I haven't researched it... does that mean it hasn't or won't happen? No probably not.

"They cannot come at the expense of women's rights"

Well there has to be a compromise somewhere no?