Former jockey is now a woman

That post is to Rufus.

I assume you're talking generally rather than to me directly? Because I've been clear I don't think MN or most of the posters on trans issues are transphobic, just that the premise of this thread is.

cobra

Yes I understand your point re the OP

But a fair few posters have come on to say they dont see the problem

But apparently even saying that you dont have a problem is also transphobic...as 'you are all transphobic'

Ask questions sure, don't single out a person and ignore that they've said they felt they've been battling with themselves and living a double life from childhood to try and provoke some kind of outrage that they've dared to come out and say they're trans (outrage which I'm heartened to see hasn't happened).

I am gender critical and on board with most of the concerns on MN but whenever there is an accusation of transphobia posters always deny it and say 'no we have no problem with trans people who just want to get on with their lives, we respect the trans people in our lives, it's TRAs and self-ID we're concerned about' and then an OP like this is just basically pissed off this person is trans. Which is transphobia.

There's nothing wrong in essence with anything this individual person is doing but viewing it as part of the wider political and ideological argument around transgenderism that is going on currently it does raise questions.

Why are so many men announcing they are women late in life?

Is this person what was previously known as a cross dresser?

Is it a good thing that cross dressers and other gender non conforming people no longer feel the need to hide?

Are cross dressers really what we understand as transgender?

Should they really fall under the same umbrella as people with gender dysphoria?

Does any of the above actually make them a woman?

Should the category of woman make space for men who like a particular sort of clothing and outward appearance?

Live and let live is fine to a degree but this is a big political, cultural and philosophical debate that is going on at the moment.

We have the right to (respectfully) ask all the questions we want when it's a change in the definition of 51% of the population that is seemingly state sanctioned.

Because this is the kind of thread that is transphobic.

Lucky i didn't say that the thread wasn't transphobic then isnt it

As i said its the 'you are all transphobic' posts that piss me off

You think a thread is transphobic fine...report

You think someone is being transphobic fine...report

Because this is the kind of thread that is transphobic. It's aim isn't to raise awareness of TRAs or the dangers of self ID or objecting to the erosion of women it's just objecting to someone being transgender and dismissing the person and their life to 'a man who likes to dress up'.

And i do understand the OPs 'issue' but as usual i have no problem with how people want to dress

Im getting a bit pissed off with all the 'goodness you are all transphobic' bullshit

nd this place is still all over her like a rash.

As far as i can see most posters have said they dont have a problem at all and cant figure out the Ops 'issue'

Why is everyone getting so worked up over this? Since when did we take what the tabloids print as gospel truth? Lots of her thoughts and feelings over this probably haven't been reported. I can't see how Vicky is now just a man who likes girly clothes and makeup and shouldn't identify as female because of what was stated in an article.

To be honest I think Vicky is very brace - racing is a very close knit community. It must be difficult to have the courage to put your private life out there for everyone to nit pick the facts.

Have a thread about gender stereotyping the. Don't single out someone for a thread in the hope that people will be outraged and make unpleasant comments as that seems to be what you were anticipating.

There are some races that are exclusively for woman jockeys. If she started entering those and winning them by virtue of getting put up on better horses by owners and trainers who still perceived her as a man, that would be an issue. If, as I said upthread, she were to win a major race and be acclaimed as the first woman to do so, that would also be an issue. But neither of those things is likely to happen given her age, so I have no problem with her and wish her all the best.

This one really doesn't bother me, and as a horsewoman the only sex split in racing is fillies and colts so...

I think it undermines the argument we have against actual bullshit transactivism to go for every man who wants to dress as a stereotype of a woman.

Ah, right. The OP was expressing sympathy for the predicament Vince/Victoria finds herself in. Thanks for the clarification.

I can't speak for the OP, but my reason for posting on this thread is because I'm angry. Angry that I'm raising a child in a society which is so intolerant of personal expression.

What's your problem with her? I thought the way MN is deflecting claims of transphobia is that its TRAs and self ID that is the problem. Not transgenderism itself.

if she returned to racing, she wouldn't face the prejudice woman jockeys do

FFS. Stop looking for transphobia where there is none.

HeatedCatFurniture, these are your very words:

The only problem I would have with this is if she returned to racing

You then explained why you thought she should no longer be able to work in her chosen profession.

[shrugs shoulders]

Is it transphobia to be incredibly sad that gender stereotyping has become so entrenched that this person lived many years of their life so unhappy and spent their life compensating for their feelings before finally plucking up the courage to express themselves?

Ah, right. The OP was expressing sympathy for the predicament Vince/Victoria finds herself in. Thanks for the clarification.

This very existence of this thread underlines how transphobic this place has come.

Why does this person have to Identify as a woman in order to express themselves in the way they feel comfortable?

Is it transphobia to be incredibly sad that gender stereotyping has become so entrenched that this person lived many years of their life so unhappy and spent their life compensating for their feelings before finally plucking up the courage to express themselves?

What is it about the meaning of the word man/him/he that leads to this person to feel so uncomfortable?

What is it about the desire to wear makeup and specific clothing that results in this person believing they have a different identity?

Oh don't be ridiculous, of course I wouldn't. I just think it's important to acknowledge the privilege she has enjoyed as a male jockey, and she appears to be doing just that. If she was acclaimed as eg the first woman to win the Grand National, that's what I'd have a problem with.

But you'd stop her returning to work if you could, right, HeatedCatFurniture?

As female and male jockeys can compete together there’s no advantage to him living as a female from a sporting point of view
She can wear what she wants and call herself what she wants and live as a woman, doesn’t bother me in the slightest, it’s very different from the TRA’s