Brendan Cox has resigned

I think it's very natural to try and make excuses for people you know and like. People do it all the time. You suspend judgement because you think, well, he seems like a nice person so he can't be that bad really. It's disappointing, but I find it hard to judge people too harshly because I suspect that I would be the same. I think you're right but you might make these judgements in private rather than going to the media and voicing your thoughts publicly.

hackmum I agree that it's natural - but what I'm struggling with is the lack of self awareness demonstrated by these high profile people.

Having publicly condemned people from outside their tribe for similar behaviours only a few weeks ago, defending their friends eliminates any pretence of being objective. People like Jess Phillips would have more of my respect if they admitted that, rather than trying to retain their credibility.

I think it's very natural to try and make excuses for people you know and like. People do it all the time. You suspend judgement because you think, well, he seems like a nice person so he can't be that bad really. It's disappointing, but I find it hard to judge people too harshly because I suspect that I would be the same.

geronominoleapinglizards I am sorry you got abused and I am not surprised by the set up you describe of a charismatic leader who is a dickhead.

I have namechanged and I have to careful not to divulge re a charity I worked for.

I did a small stint at a rich charity.

They were ethical and above board and really really checked people out - and what was really sick is that sick abusive people and complete entitled bullies who sexually harass people would try get jobs there.

It wouldn't fly and they really only hired people that they thoroughly checked out.

So their approach was to really be very thorough about hiring and be very clear about working standards.

I can't ever imagine for example someone being left alone long enough on their trips to have individual access to anyone vulnerable.
It just wouldn't happen.

The people who founded this charity were very onto it - very rich but not charasmatic at all and very onguard about people using their fucking privilege or wealth to fuck people over.

This charity was very onto it and very onguard. My time there really made me really consider people and their motives.

So many people still hire based on connections and therefore don't do their due diligence. You can see with networking and personal influence that a dickhead like B Cox could wield power and get into privileged and powerful positions.

One of the senior managers I worked with actually reminded me of Lundy Bancroft - I learnt so many good lessons.

I only worked there for a short time but I did do some benchmarking of other charities and was pretty shocked then.

The Oxfam debacle does not shock me.
Brendan cox doesn't shock me.
Save the children and Oxfam just didn't care - they didn't care enough to be objective and question their hiring practices - fucking disgraceful.

Mariella Frostrup "you can't legislate for human behaviour"!

what an absolutely dunderheaded thing to say. Wtf does she think laws are for, alien behaviour?

As for JP's "we all know men who have done things we don't approve of." Well yes, yes we do. It's a massive problem, the generally appalling behaviour of large numbers of men. (Yes, not all men, and some women, but men are MASSIVELY over-represented when it comes to criminal and aggressive behaviour.) I was thinking this when I was watching a piece about stop and search and how black men are stopped disproportionately often. But no one questioned for a second that it's almost always men who are stopped, even though that is also disproportionate. It's because we all live with, and to an extent accept, that men are statistically massively more violent and dangerous than women, for whatever reasons.

That doesn't mean we should accept it, or that if a friend does it, you can just make excuses.

I'm finding this while situation fascinating because I feel like I know someone very similar to BC. He's extremely charismatic, good looking, runs a small but successful charity which is making waves and has an image of being a wonderful family man.

He has absolutely hoardes of female followers. His facebook is full of adult women fan girls telling him he's amazing and going starry eyed.

When I met him, he sexually harrassed me and I saw a very manipulative, unpleasant side to him. He was very open about the fact he sleeps with a lot of women amd he visits a lot of third world countries so it's not hard to guess that some of them will be vulnerable. He does a lot of drugs too. He has a lot of MP's and tv celebrities as friends and I obviously don't know them but I've read rumours even on Mumsnet about dodgy sexual behaviour on their part.

It only just clicked about how interconnected it all is and how of course none of them speak out against the others. They all covet eachother's roles in some way. So many people would love a nice juicy charity job which makes them a saint in their own community. They each get status by being friends with important people. It's all absolutely bogus. These are not nice human beings. They're out there saving the world but for entirely selfish reasons

I'm sure some other people must be aware about the reality of the behaviour of the man I know. But if it came out in a similar scandal I have no doubt at all that the majority of his female followers would overlook it. They all fancy him. They all want to be in his orbit. Some men do just have a huge amount of charisma and it's very powerful.

I think it stinks.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obriens-compelling-response-brendan-cox/
This is fascinating. Why the need to mention Trump?

Such hypocrisy in the media. When Donald Trump gets caught saying offensive things they (rightly) go mad over it, but some virtue signalling bloke like this actually carries out repeated sexual assaults and people are still defending him because "he seems like a nice bloke". I hope the women he attacked are looked after here- they are the ones I feel sorry for. I can't imagine how hard it must be to see your attacker being defended in the media.

Er, yes you can and we do. It is the basis of all civilisation. Absolutely.

I have every sympathy for women suffering abuse, but..." and "you can't legislate for human behaviour"

Er, yes you can and we do. It is the basis of all civilisation.

Great article maladroit rubbish for women but honest

Thanks maladroit. That is an excellent article which should get more coverage. I could not believe that Mariella Frostrup was saying people were trying to equate commenting on women's clothing with child abuse in Haiti. WHO on earth did this? Was she trying to say that's all Forsyth and Cox had done - comment on clothing? Why wasn't she challenged on this by the interviewer? Gender Ambassador for Save the Children - you could not make this up. It would be considered too far fetched for a In the Thick of It script.

Kikashi yes, on the blacklist - Adam Boulton, Andrew Marr, Jess Phillips, Lucy Powell and every other journo/politico who has known about this story since before 2015 and failed to address it.

Thanks maladroit that is a good article. The title about silencing "difficult women" is so true, especially today when the "difficult women" won their Supreme court judgement against the Met over the handling of their rapes by Worboys.

Adam Boulton is now on my blacklist. JF in IMO is not a "decent person". Decent people don't (allegedly) bully their staff, silence complaints, cover up abuse and send inappropriate emails to staff about their appearance.

Really good Open Democracy article about how the whistleblowers were silenced at every turn.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648565/I-close-eyes-face-MARIELLA-FROSTRUP-broadcaster-friend-Jo-Cox-MP-s-inclusive-heart-irony-demise.html

Frostrup's political views have been described as "a bit left-of-centre".[10] She has been active in the charity sector for two decades, having worked on Bank Aid and Comic Relief along with various fundraising initiatives for Oxfam, The Children's Society and Save the Children. Campaigning for women's rights and gender equality has become her main focus; she has recently made several trips to Africa to meet women and young girls in their communities, and experience first hand the realities and inequalities of the lives that they lead.

In 2010 she created, along with three other trustees, the Gender Rights and Equality Action Trust. This foundation aims at fostering gender equality and raising awareness and funds, to support grass roots gender equality projects in Africa and beyond. The GREAT Initiative works in partnership with Femmes Africa Solidarité, an African charity.

In 2015 she signed an open letter which the ONE Campaign had been collecting signatures for; the letter was addressed to Angela Merkel and Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, urging them to focus on women as they serve as the head of the G7 in Germany and the AU in South Africa respectively, which will start to set the priorities in development funding before a main UN summit in September 2015 that will establish new development goals for the generation.[11]
All this and she supports a sex pest.

To be fair to Mariella she has been consistent for many years now that she'd cheerfully throw women under the bus in order to please men with power and money. I can't abide her.

Nauticant YY - exactly; I can almost hear the wailing of "but........he's my friend!"

maladroit I admire your optimism - I'm more sceptical. In many cases, I believe that relationships between influencers are cemented during scandals like this, either through a misguided desire to "support the underdog" or a realisation that "there but for the grace of God..." and it could indeed have been any one of them.

I would hope his name is now too tainted for him to have any influence whatsoever, Hats, but I am fairly sure that's just the tiny remaining flicker of optimism which hasn't been beaten out of me yet! I would be wholly unsurprised if those hopes are dashed.

Having thought more about this, it seems this particularly scandal is jangling a number of interconnected and overlapping networks, political, charitable, media, social, cultural, and a large number of very well-connected people are finding themselves in uncomfortable proximity with abusers, possibly connected to them with only one degree of separation, and possibly connected to them in more than one network.

Lots of influential people are feeling themselves to be slightly tainted by the recent unpleasantness. It's a bit too close. They know these people. They want it all to stop.

You can't then get all shaky because "he does good things and our kids play together".

I absolutely agree - it's the balance between integrity and career that I consider more ambiguous.

That said, I do think that BC could probably jeopardise JP career if he was so inclined - both because of his personal relationships with Senior politicians (many of which have come about as a result of his wife's role, and her subsequent death), and his wider network through his Executive roles.

Whether he would or not, if she chose to sacrifice their friendship over this issue, I don't know.

To be fair to Mariella she has been consistent for many years now that she'd cheerfully throw women under the bus in order to please men with power and money.

So Mariella is a disappointment too. You can legislate for human behaviour, that's why you have laws and policies! How can she live with herself as gender ambassador while making these bullshit comments?

I'd rather die with integrity than thrive by shitting on the people I pretend to help.

But Hats, Jess and Brendan are not colleagues. He is not an MP. I don't disagree with what you say, but Jess had no qualms in calling out Damian Green, for example. "I want us to be able to set the example that no matter who your friends are, no matter what your job is, you cannot treat people as playthings, and if you do you must face the consequences" she wrote just two months ago. I think it's a bit disingenuous of her to now say appropriate consequences for BC are stepping back from two charities"for the time being" and making a feeble non apology which blames his victims for feeling hurt and offended.

I'm picking on Jess as her examples are very plain, but this attitude has been displayed by plenty of others and I find it disappointing. and I agree that more often than not the woman doing the calling out is more damaged than the man she is calling out, but at the same time I think integrity is hugely important, especially if you're an MP, and especially if you're an MP claiming to be all for women's rights. You can't then get all shaky because "he does good things and our kids play together".

Mariella Frostrup was just on The World at One and speaking up for Justin Forsyth (who happens to be the person who appointed her to her position of Gender Ambassador at Save the Children). Among her minimising comments were phrases like "I have every sympathy for women suffering abuse, but..." and "you can't legislate for human behaviour".

No wonder this is going nowhere. The Establishment just don't want it to. I don't think there's a conspiracy, it's just that it would suit a large number of people with influence if this inconvenient matter were simply to go away.