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"It's not as if we murdered babies in their cots" - Oxfam

187 replies

JaimesGoldenHand · 17/02/2018 11:07

Apparently the Oxfam CEO thinks the reaction to the Aid Worker rape and use of prostitutes and the subsequent apparent cover-up has been disproportionate. It happens in all aid agencies so why the fuss.

I was in two minds as to whether to boycott Oxfam but this has decided me. I feel physically sick.

OP posts:
Xenophile · 17/02/2018 22:59

Ah, the women do it too thing has happened. Took longer than I thought.

Men commit 98% of all violent crime so, if aid workers were all women, you would rid aid work of 98% of the problem.

Is that better?

I do agree that there is a lot of anti-aid sentiment around and the level of it has grown enormously over the last couple of years. There's not a post by a charity on socmed or an article in the newspapers about foreign aid that isn't crayoned all over by the type of person who believes that charity begins at home, while simultaneously never having done a damned thing for home grown charity either.

There is also a case for scepticism as to why papers are reporting these things, many of which have been poorly kept secrets for years right now, but papers publish along with the zeitgeist and the increase in anti foreign aid belief in a vocal section of the social media commentariat has no doubt fuelled it.

NONE of this means that this shouldn't have been made openly public, that the way that Oxfam have dealt with it can be excused or that what has happened is in any way right or reasonable.

What we need to be pressing for is a continuation of the foreign aid budget, but better oversight and a different approach to what aid actually looks like. There are some utterly brilliant schemes happening all over the world, maybe now would be a good time to look at those and work out best practice? And to have a predominantly female led workforce as well, to make life safer for the women and children in those vulnerable areas.

Njordsgrrrl · 17/02/2018 22:58

By that I mean whoever says it should be laughed off of the internet obviously...

biscuitmillionaire · 17/02/2018 22:57

There's a bit of a weird double standard in the Guardian reading classes, where on the one hand everyone is shocked and appalled about use of prostitutes in Haiti, and on the other hand Amnesty International's official policy is that prostitution should be decriminalised.

I'm not defending the aid workers, by the way, just pointing this out.

If they did in fact have sex with underage girls, then that's a different matter.

Njordsgrrrl · 17/02/2018 22:52

WDIT should absolutely be a thing like NAMALT. It's so endemic!

thebewilderness · 17/02/2018 22:49

Let us now change the conversation from the overwhelming horror of male violence and consider that WDIT (women do it too).
We will pretend that 97% of male perps are exactly equal to 3% female perps in the name of equality.

Njordsgrrrl · 17/02/2018 22:41

Yes. Rape of poverty stricken males has exactly the same lifelong biological and social consequences. Ffs!

AssassinatedBeauty · 17/02/2018 22:40

Ok, how about "this would happen almost 100% less than it does now if all aid workers were female".

Thisusernamethingistricky · 17/02/2018 22:38

I worked in the sector and knew of at least 2 female employees who had inappropriate sexual relations with people.

Can you expand on this? What do you mean by 'inappropriate'? They paid for sex, or had sex with under age boys?

capercaillie · 17/02/2018 22:28

Do not place all the blame on men for this. I worked in the sector and knew of at least 2 female employees who had inappropriate sexual relations with people. The comments about ‘this would not happen if all aid workers are female’ are blatantly not true.

thebewilderness · 17/02/2018 22:24

We have no way of knowing at this time that the perps raped and did not also murder the victims.

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 22:20

Thanks lass

Almostthere15 · 17/02/2018 22:00

I'm always uncomfortable about sexual contact in which there's a power imbalance. It's not hard to be clear on this as a policy. It's not ok, and people must have witnessed it and turned a blind eye. Absolutely many people working for Oxfam did and do amazing work - but the fact is they've handled this so badly. They should have dealt with it when it came to light and it says something troubling about the culture that they didn't. That culture would seem to be dominant if the recent comments are anything to go by. It massively minimises rape (whether underage or not because there is no consent in that situation and to imagone there could be is outrageous).

@k2p2k2tog I hear what you're trying to say 're references but organisations can refer to the debarring service and many do. Because they are legally obliged to. Oxfam chose either a. To not investigate (which isn't ok) or b. To investigate but do nothing with the outcome (which isn't ok).

Once people stand by while abuse of power is rife it becomes acceptable and normalised and I can't help but think this has happened here. Just "you know it's natural" well it isn't, and many of the people working for Oxfam don't think it is either I assume, but enough did to allow it to go unchecked.

LassWiADelicateAir · 17/02/2018 20:45

save the children, would be interested if anyone has any info on them

I posted a l ink to a 10 year old report about abuse in Haiti. I erroneously said it was about Save the Children but it was by them - not about them.

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 20:30

french peacekeepers in the congo

This was the story that led a person to post "send women" to these situations as being a serious option.

If these agencies are unable or not interested in acting when the victims are young children and it's "rape rape" then they're hardly going to give a fuck about older girls and women having sex in exchange for vital resources, are they. Maybe they think it's empowering for them, earning their aid, rather than being given it...

SeniorRita · 17/02/2018 20:25

I heard this quote today and thought 'uhoh, a Ratner moment'.

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 20:24

Ah can see some were jailed - good.

I was thinking of the French UN peackeepers who abused children, I looked it up the other day, I don't think the UN has done much.

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 20:22

"2003 - Nepalese troops accused of sexual abuse while serving in DR Congo. Six are later jailed
2004 - Two UN peacekeepers repatriated after being accused of abuse in Burundi
2005 - UN troops accused of rape and sexual abuse in Sudan
2006 - UN personnel accused of rape and exploitation on missions in Haiti and Liberia
2007 - UN launches probe into sexual abuse claims in Ivory Coast"

This is not new but it's been known about for such a long time, why are they not working to stop it? The men who have raped children, from what i remember, never faced prosecution. There seems to be no will to do it.

I don't care if they're all at it, OXFAM have mishandled this and the words of the man in charge speak for themselves.

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 20:19

Googling save the children, here is a daily mail link saying they produced a report 10 years ago warning about the high level of sexual explotation & rape including of children by NGOs

warning upsetting

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 20:14

We donate to plan and save the children, would be interested if anyone has any info on them.

I will take a look on their sites but policies around this are not always easy to find.

I know some are OK with their people fucking the locals as long as they are over 18 which is wrong wrong wrong. The hard rule for all these orgs should be no fucking the locals full stop.

I would be pretty upset if either plan or save the children are helping these kids and then deem it OK to sexually exploit them when they hit whatever age.

MadgeMak · 17/02/2018 20:06

I'm certainly going to be rethinking who I make donations to, so would also welcome any suggestions of some alternative grassroots organisations.

UpABitLate · 17/02/2018 19:38

What would be positive would be people posting suggestions for charities that are grass roots / ?have more women on the ground than men (waits for cries of NAMALT + sexism) / are small and people know them well or something.

We don't donate to oxfam but do to others

I have no doubt this is endemic and "normal" and has been for years - this isn't the first "scandal" around NGOs and sexual abuse of the people they are supposed to be helping. Which is why the bloke in charge is flailing - he can't see the problem so is looking for other reasons that people seem to be a tad upset about this.

The start of the interview "I haven't slept in 6 night" oh diddums well at least you weren;t being raped by wealthy overseas aid workers twice your age every one of those nights in order to get resources for you / your family.

Brokenbiscuit · 17/02/2018 16:16

Can I just point out that it's possible to be disgusted both by the way in which the anti-aid brigade has pounced on this scandal as a means of justifying their desire to shrug and walk away from the world's neediest people AND by Mark Goldring's shameless attempt to minimise the gross violation of everything that is decent by certain Oxfam employees.

I do not want to see us abandon our commitment to overseas aid as a result of what has happened. However, I do want to see robust safeguards put in place to protect vulnerable people from harm and exploitation by the very people who have supposedly dedicated their lives to helping them. And I want to see those in charge of the major aid agencies demonstrating that they understand the enormity of what has happened and that they are seriously committed to cleaning up their act.

Mark Goldring should have realised that his dismissive comments would only inflame the situation. He needs to resign.

mrswhiplington · 17/02/2018 15:26

They may not have murdered any babies but they may have left a few behind for these poor women to bring up. Are Oxfam going to pay for their welfare?

StealthPolarBear · 17/02/2018 15:24

Excellent posts on this thread

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