This woman is all of us.

We're not specifying which pronouns must be used - not our remit. But if you're using pronouns to inflame or provoke, or to be deliberately uncivil, we'll have to delete, and suspend if it doesn't stop.

Please could you clarify what that means? If a poster is otherwise civil, not goady, refers to the person in question by their chosen name, BUT always uses their biological pronouns, because they're rejecting the ideology that men can literally become women? Is that not okay?

The Orwellian shift in language is frightening, tbh, and I think it's pretty fucking important to reject the DEMAND that we must ALWAYS use a person's preferred pronouns.

Can I suggest new shiny pronouns 'El' 'Les' and 'Lem', then?

'El needs to pay more attention to les actual Woman's Officer role rather than banging on about how people are nasty to lem.'

Works for me.

I avoid pronouns whilst discussing LM.

It's like a religious schism. One person's misgendering is another person's missexing. I know what reality looks like so I know I'm not on the side of transubstantiation.

Additionally, I don't see that LM has done a single thing that merits respect from women. Quite the opposite.

That said, I will not use pronouns at all when referring to LM in future.

MNHQ respecting other people's choices is different from colluding with them and, in a democracy, everybody's choices can be challenged.

There is an intrinsic contradiction in your statement - saying you will allow posts that align with scientific orthodoxy, but will delete posts that refer to transwomen without a GRC as male (which IS scientific orthodoxy) makes no rational sense!

Mnhq if you keep pulling these threads that's very misogynistic. Don't no platform us please

Ah, MNHQ.

I am not buying into this individual's narcissistic delusion of being a woman. If I call Madigan 'she' I am not only stating something that is factually untrue, but also endorsing Madigan's wider project. Won't do it.

Just curious, can you report a post without being logged in...?

Cause if not, it's looking like the Twitter/fb mass reporting by TRAs that happens.

Doesn't matter to me, I do my absolute best not to use personal pronouns at least as I know the rules. But yeah... curious.

Look MNHQ - if LM was actually transitioned with a GRC or transitioning and taking hormones I would believe you have a point.

However neither of these scenarios are true (as confirmed by LM on Radio 4).

This issue is at the heart of the debate.

Why does any man get to decide to be a woman just because they want/feel to on any given day of the week?

Self ID is not enshrined in law (yet) and using "preferred" pronouns for people who are not (and seemingly have no intention of) transitioning is actually a way of using language to support their assertions and validate their "right" to usurp woman's rights.

Doesn't respect go both ways? Lily constantly uses the term 'cis', sometimes as an insult (the Down with Cis web page). 'Cis' is a term that many women vocally reject and find offensive for several reasons. Lily obviously doesn't care about this and continues to force the term upon women, so I'm struggling to see why people should be expected to refer to Lily as 'she'?

Obviously we are supposed to take the high road otherwise we are just as bad as them etc, but actually there comes a time to say 'no, enough'.

And that's all aside from the fact that 'he' is the correct biological term for Lily.

You OK with calling people 'them' and 'their', KateMN? I could suppress my inner grammar pedant enough to do that, but I think calling identifiably and legally male people 'she' and 'her' is part of what's caused the current sorry state of affairs.

I'm assuming that 'it' is just too discourteous, and we don't really have a readily understood gender-neutral alternative.

Except maybe 'un', Lancs/Yorkshire-style -'Us'll 'ave ter check if un's doin' job proper afore us gives un credit for it'. My gran would be fine with that.

"But we do think that repeatedly referring to someone by a pronoun they've rejected is both goady and inflammatory."

It's not, though, is it? It's just accurate. Madigan is a male. He makes jokes about having a "rape.com" website and his job being "Savile's apprentice". I'm not quite sure why his feelings need protecting so much.

Sorry, Madigan is posting pictures of Madigan's intention to dish out 'what they deserve' to 'terfs', and basic civility is dictating what pronoun we can use for this individual with a penis?
Basic civility doesn't matter more than truth, as Dath said above.

I can't in all honesty refer to LM as she. It is lying, to myself and to everyone else. Why are we being forced to lie??

But LM gets to call me CIS???

Bit of double standards there...

I have to use LM's choice of pronoun to be kind and respectful but not vice versa?

Also when did being polite top trump the truth?

Yeah I know....delete away

But doesn't scientific orthodoxy class lily as male?

Huntingdon CLP doth protest too much.

she is a rock

I thought the drawing was how Lily sees himself. The woman in the latest drawing is wearing a crown and is a policewoman ready to arrest us terfragettes? (No idea what the skeleton outfit is meant to represent)

Don't forget that it isn't Lily's fault if his lectures bore people! Remember that he is a lesbian asexual disabled autistic woman and so even if he's boring it's important for good allies to pretend he isn't.

You must ‘unquestionably’ sit though a very boring lecture by LM too.

Also, we're unquestionably going to win the next election and it's our commitment to shafting women that will get us there!