This woman is all of us.

Of course that doesn't change the situation that Liam is a biological male who hates women.

I'd think cis and use of individual pronouns are two separate circs. One is personal to one person (LM), the other isn't.

i find 'cis' very offensive and would like MN to ban its use

@BeyondTerfyCassandra

Yes - that's exactly what I meant.

I am beginning to think that MN has been warned/threatened with legal action by TIMs/MRAs.

We live in a society of free speech. Not some Orwellian, dystopian nightmare.

Yet...

Misgendering is a meaningless word. I can't get my head around how high maintenance these people are. They are embarrassing.

Kate, I think Darth was referring to Muscato's IWD post which said "suck my dick" and whether we must call Muscato by Muscatos preferred pronouns when discussing it. Though I'd like some sort of pager to go off should Muscato ever come to Mn!

I don't think mn have changed any rules here - it's been okay to use sexed pronouns when talking in about transpeople general, but not when talking about a specific individual for a while. With there then being flexibility as to how strictly it's enforced when talking about rapists etc.

I guess the issue here is that LM's misogyny and narcissistic behaviour puts them in the "bad person" category for some (I know it's not that simple of course - I am simplifying) so they feel it should be okay, whereas for mn the line is that LM is not a criminal so "misgendering" isn't okay under the possible criminal-flexibility rule.

I am still curious if LMs cronies are reporting here though...? If it's just posts that misgender rather than ones that cross the line about LMs behaviour.

But surely it's part of the debate? How can I say 'I don't think I should have to refer to an intact teenage boy as 'she' just because he signed a piece of paper' if I am required to call him 'she'?

That's not goady - that's debate. Surely you can recognise goady MN? you get enough practise

Duh - bold fail on Terry's quote..

Fuck. Every time I start to feel more positive about the threat to women's rights and how people are being silenced something like this happens and I'm sick to my stomach again. I was proud to be a member of Mumsnet earlier.

Nailed it @TerfyTheCuntingTerf

The vast majority of the 8 billion people on the planet did not get the memo about the me/she/he thing.

Yambabe what a happy coincidence. Go for it!

Fuck. Every time I start to feel more positive about the threat to women's rights and how people are being silenced something like this happens and I'm sick to my stomach again. I was proud to be a member of Mumsnet earlier.

I think we'd consider that pretty goady. Look, this is tough - we're trying hard not to lay down rigid rules beyond our TGs. We don't believe that if we do so, it will be the best outcome in terms of free speech

How is that not a rigid rule? You're demanding that people lie. And clearly you are specifying what pronouns people use if it's 'goady' to use accurate biological pronouns in an otherwise civil post.

Really really not okay, MN. So much for free speech

So now MNHQ might not allow posts which align with scientific orthodoxy ?!

I'll just use 'Li' in future (can't bring myself to use 'Lily' because it's a lovely name for a girl/woman).

Wow, not a twitter user generally but have been following links on here as I am fascinated by the subject and so far haven't dared raise it amongst my (mostly liberal like me) friends and family.

Imagine my surprise that one of the first few comments on the twitter thread is my DSis, saying exactly what I think about the whole thing.

I guess maybe it's time to stick my head above the parapet after all.

I don't use (capitalised) He when I refer to the Christian God because I don't believe in him.

Isn't this the same thing?

Do we have to call Danielle Muscavato "she" when he tells us to "suck his dick" if we disagree with him?

Best I can do is avoid using Lily's pronouns every time I want to mention Lily. Even that feels like pandering to an ideology I strongly oppose.

And you can bet your arse people using genderless pronouns will be the next on the list. Slippery slope.

Mandating people to lie isn't okay, MNHQ.

I'm not going to refer to Lily using female pronouns. It would be a lie. I'm happy to use preferred pronouns as a polite fiction - a courtesy towards people who are courteous towards me in return. Lily isn't. Lily is a misogynist.

Best I can do is avoid using Lily's pronouns every time I want to mention Lily. Even that feels like pandering to an ideology I strongly oppose.