This woman is all of us.

In terms of why many media outlets are not referring to trans women as trans women, if they're following AP guidelines it's because they're not allowed to (this is the case for many US based sites/newspapers). The obvious way to get around that is to include a photo, which is what many dissenting journalists appear to be doing. It's frustrating to see "women commits crime that would be extremely atypical if a woman had done it" headlines, but much like Mumsnet they're trying to work around rules that are already in place.

I don't like it and wish it wasn't necessary, but at least people who actually read the article will come away knowing that the crime was committed by a male person, and hopefully annoyed about seeing them described as a woman.

Through work, I have spoken to several high-profile journalists (male and female) and two sitting MPs who follow the threads (and they have told me there are more) and are making inroads with persuading their colleagues that the position of many posters here is not bigotry and that concerns are absolutely valid.

MN really does have a far reach, doesn't it.

I do often wonder how much of a part MN has played in delaying this GRA thing, and possibly stopping it. Janice Turner has to take some credit too, she has been amazing. But it could very well be that when the mods decided that yes, we could actually discuss it here instead of being deleted and banned, that the tables started turning. Its been interesting to watch the threads go from 90% 'you bigot' to 90% gender critical as women read more and more about it and actually started thinking about it instead of mindlessly repeating the cultlike chant. I know the turning of the tide on here gave me the courage to brace this topic with some people I knew in real life, and it turned out they all thought it was horseshit too just did not dare to say it.

The Slacktivist has a policy to always use the proper title when speaking of The Liar Tony Perkins.
Henceforth I shall use the proper title when speaking of The MRA L Madigan instead of calling them Madagain, though I really do like that play on words best.

That’s very encouraging news Janice.

That's brilliant news, Janice

News headlines have taken the 1st rule of misogyny to new heights when they report crimes trans identified males commit as being committed by women. You would almost think a bunch of MRAs in the news room have decided this is the way to make their lie about "women committing as much crime as men but never prosecuted" look true.
1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

This thread is fantastic, and I think Mumsnet HQ have found a really good balance between allowing free speech and not allowing nastiness, given the difficult legal position they find themselves in.

I find it easier to just not use pronouns, even though I understand the argument of those that do want to use the correct pronouns.

And as for the poster above who said there are journalists, politicians, judges, authors etc watching the thread... spot on.

Through work, I have spoken to several high-profile journalists (male and female) and two sitting MPs who follow the threads (and they have told me there are more) and are making inroads with persuading their colleagues that the position of many posters here is not bigotry and that concerns are absolutely valid.

When you hear this stuff discussed in the media, it’s usually as a direct result of it being discussed here.

It’s all a bit Handmaid’s Tale at the moment, but there are more politicians who will now begin to stick their heads above the parapet.

Without the courageous and insightful work of people here, there would be virtually no opposition to the likes of Madigan.

What @BitFuckedOffNow said.

I'm with Red on this one. When they hit low, we go high.

Sorry I should have clarified about the headline in the first article - I just meant to highlight in casual reading it wasn't apparent.

I worry about the issues already mentioned - transparency and data.

I think as a matter of course, that anyone trans committing an offence should have their previous name and their sex made public so that there is transparency about it

I agree. Too easy to simply change gender to hide.

Why can't the news articles say trans woman in the title? Why just woman?

The poilceman was pushed onto tracks by a drunken trans woman. So with the strength of a man.
I also don't understand why they put that she would've gone to a mans prison if she'd been convicted. All it does is give the TRA's ammo to get sympathy. It also seems like a pattern that judges appear to be going easier on trans women because they don't want to call them men.

The second article make it look like a perverted woman instead of a perverted man. No mention of trans at all.

A lot of the pattern type behaviour makes me think of psychology/persuasion stuff like Robert Cialdini's work on influence, NLP etc.

Absolutely Red . This has occurred to me too. The privacy stuff has lots of implications and I wonder how proportionate this can really be considered.

There is a pattern I notice often in watching the spread of trans ideology.

1. Partner with and support another's cause to create an ally (eg join Labour Party, support feminist/women's orginsations, ally with LGB)
2. Make reasonable demand for support/help E.g. Please call me by my correct pronoun, please include me in your women only networking meetings, please refer to me as a woman as I so badly want to be one
3. If possible advance the law to support their position - eg lobbying around equality act, test cases around parental consent
4. Ensure critical people are invested in their success - e.g. being obviously mentored by people in key positions, standing in representative positions that reflect on the org
5. Make increasingly but incrementally invasive demands while trying to obscure this with language and by breaking up the proposition. E.g. no one should have to have surgery to get a GRC, your child will likely kill themselves if they do not have this medical intervention, if we don't get to come into schools and tell them this important stuff about trans people, trans children will be bullied
6. Make increasingly ridiculous demands eg claim to represent biological women while starting groups saying down with biological women, demand pamphlets questioning their own ideology aimed at schools be ripped up immediately but not saying why, saying genital preferences are transphobic, etc

Red yes I agree. Does anyone know what would happen if a man commited child abuse and is on the sex offenders register land then puts on a dress and changes his name?
Will people still beable to check this person out?

Datun fan club here too.

I think Datun is my hero!!!

I think as a matter of course, that anyone trans committing an offence should have their previous name and their sex made public so that there is transparency about it.

We have domestic abuse laws in which women can now check to see if prospective partners have a history.

To my mind this is part of that type of thing. It means that convictions are not wrongly attributed to women.

The first one says that the person was transgender.

Sorry forgot to ask my question

So where do we stand on this?

Are the press obligated not to report that the perpetrators were born male?

Huh? The BBC article does makes it clear that that is a transgender person, Darth, and also says 'would have been sent to a men's prison', which is quite specific. It's just the headline that isn't clear in that one.

Two news articles today about 2 woman committing and assault, the other involved in the abuse of under age boys.

Both have a string of previous convictions.

Articles fail to mention they are trans women.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-43127415?twitterr_impression=true

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-posed-teenage-girl-facebook-9759228.amp?twitterr_impression=true

I've been so conflicted about all of this, and vacillate between using inaccurate preferred pronouns and factually correct ones. It feels like the argument is being sucked into a vortex where everything is blurred.

Datun, thanks for your clear-headed insight. I'm going to follow your lead. Again.

Another conceding 'defeat' here and saying of course you are right datun and red.

I just get extremely wound up when compelled to lie. Especially when its little concessions that have lead to this huge clusterfuck in the first place.