This woman is all of us.

Definitely agree datun and I reckon you would be fine in that context

Elletorro

I don't agree with character assassinations at all.

I do, however, think people can highlight something that somebody saying and rip it apart.

I think that you might be over optimistic.

Harassment is in the perception of the victim. There will be regards to reasonableness and circumstances to determine if the victims complaint is upheld.

Assumptions about LMs legal status are dangerous to rely upon. Also that case is only at tribunal level it’s not a binding precedent.

I understand it’s frustrating but think about the context of your comments and if it’s character assassinations then it will be tricky to defend. Not so difficult if it’s not aimed at a particular person.

Mumsnet is not above the law. Think about why Twitter and Facebook delete. They are protecting themselves.

It's interesting that the employment tribunal reported in another thread rejected a claim of misgendering made by a man who had provided a male passport ID to his employers but wanted to be known as a woman.

So if you are legally a man at work, you are legally a man. Using that to bully someone is, well, bullying.

So Liam is legally a man in his voluntary position as Women's Officer as he would have signed on with a male ID.

From what I understand individuals are not subject to equality law. Only organisations. And, again, from what I understand mumsnet does not constitute the type of organisation they are talking about.

So misgendering (by individuals) could only be considered a hate incident (not a crime because that has to involve an actual crime) if it was done with deliberate malice or in a prejudicial way.

And, again, I don't believe it's actually illegal. it's more for statistical purposes.

Saying Lily is a man is completely correct because they don't have a GRC. Saying they are a biological man, would still be correct because they are. Even though, to all intents and purposes, they would be treated as a woman.

Otherwise doctors and surgeons would be getting arrested, left right and centre for correctly identifying biology as male or female.

Vesuvia

What's more, Madigan doesn't have a GRC, so Madigan is not only biologically male but legal status male. He's a young adult male. A man.

Crikey. I thought MNHQ had moved on a bit from the 'misgendering' thing in the past year.

I can't capitulate to demands to mislead others with my language, and I'm literally queasy at the compulsion to use misleading language: female pronouns for a man or male pronouns for a woman.
It feels like being ordered, in fact forced, to say 'praise be', or 'blessed is the fruit' or some other demonstration of a faith I don't share. It's not goady to call a rock, a rock, or a spade a spade. More than ever we should be defending the right of people to truthfully use language to reflect reality, regardless of whether we ourselves would indulge in a polite lie.

I'm frightened at how the world is right now.
It's lie, or have no voice.

there should never be negative consequences for anyone using 'he' for a male person. There shouldn't be negative consequences for telling the truth.

terfta All bros-all would have done the same. No question.

I voted for Corbyn. And Ed. What would Ed have done, I wonder? He's mates with the Madigan too I think. What would Tony Blair have done?

I can't help but think that Labour shot themselves in the foot by not electing David Milliband. (If David had been leader, and beaten Cameron in 2015 - we'd have no Brexit either)

So many what-ifs.

I won't vote for Labour again if this self-ID thing is still supported by them.

lastgirl Not as pissed as me-I was a Corbynista!

I can't help but feel pissed at all the people here who came out for Jeremy Corbin....they were raving about him and acting like he was the Second Coming!! Just because he was liberal!

There were a million threads about him -now look at him!! Such an enemy of women!!😡😡😡😡

Ouchbirthhurted wrote - "2. Make reasonable demand for support/help E.g. Please call me by my correct pronoun, please include me in your women only networking meetings, please refer to me as a woman as I so badly want to be one"

Where is your evidence that "please" is used in this process?

Precisely.

More report whats said. Roll eyes. Dont get enraged type stuff.

I think it is useful to know what is said. But not to respond.

The no1 rule of the internet.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

I agree to an extent. Don't bother quoting any of the mindless stuff LM is. That worked for Trump. Not against him. The more retweets the better is how it goes. You are playing Lily's game if you do.

Do not give LM oxygen as much as possible. Focus on what our agenda is instead.

The less attention you give, the more frustrated Lily will get and the more extreme Lily will get in order to try and get attention.

Think toddler.

I wish we could just stop talking about that individual at all. Nothing satisfies a narcissist like taking up people's time and headspace, whole lot of supply being generated here, and some of the threads are getting to feel like nasty gossip.

Please identify the miscreants, @cista.

Stop "misgendering" Lily please, or the thread will be de.etec. Call them 'LM' or they.

That big pharma article is frightening.
How are we meant to fight if it already seems like a done deal?

It is so sinister that this was planned so long ago and tagged onto the LGB movement.
Our children are nothing but lab rats to people with money and power.

Thank you.

Sums him up very well.

Men's Rights Activist.

Can I ask what MRA means?

I suppose that the MRA Madigan simply uses the advanced search to find references to themselves. They have to get their outrage material somewhere.