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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you be a feminist and be completely accepting of transgender individuals?

248 replies

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 17:30

It seems to be a thing that the majority of feminists on here are against transgender people. I'm just curious if you can be a feminist and completely accept transgender individuals.

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 23:47

Accepted by what, the sink? In a single occupancy toilet there would be nobody else in there to accept or reject him.

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:45

@TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole oh I don't mean in that toilet. I think that was for himself, that he is accepted as a woman. IMO.

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PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 14/02/2018 23:45

I can confirm that India Willougby does not pass as well in real life as she does in pictures.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/02/2018 23:45

I suppose a guy wearing a dress and make up could be harassed in a male toilet?

You said it was a single room. In a small shop. That he had to ask for the key (to the female one, rather than the correct one)

So how would other men harrass him in the loo?

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:44

Just curious though. If Jazz has never been through male puberty, surely she is more at risk in a male toilet?

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/02/2018 23:43

So do you have a problem with women (trans men) looking female but demanding they're male? Wanting to use male loos, etc.?

Male loos do not bother me. Its up to men to speak up about that if they have a problem. Women are not a danger to men though, in the same way men are a danger to women. So men may feel unconfortable, but not unsafe.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 14/02/2018 23:43

IME most transmen use female toilets unless they are 100% sure they pass.

thebewilderness · 14/02/2018 23:43

This NAMALT game is getting old and tired.
Doesn't matter how many times we say yes, we know, we are talking about the predators, the interrogation and accusations continue.

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:42

Maybe so, as Jazz Jennings definitely doesn't look male to me.

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/02/2018 23:42

I have never watched Jazz. They look quite feminine on photos though. But then again, so did India Willougby, very carefully posed photos India passed well I think. But actually watching them on TV? Totally male. Everything about them screamed male.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 14/02/2018 23:41

I suppose a guy wearing a dress and make up could be harassed in a male toilet?

Then other men need to stop behaving like twats and leave gender non conforming men alone.

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:41

So do you have a problem with women (trans men) looking female but demanding they're male? Wanting to use male loos, etc.?

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AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 23:41

I'm starting to think that an optician may be your best bet in terms of resolving some of your confusion, MagicSweets.

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:40

I suppose a guy wearing a dress and make up could be harassed in a male toilet?

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MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:39

You think Jazz Jennings looks male?

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/02/2018 23:39

erm because he wants to be a woman? I don't know. He asked because he needed a key. It's a small privately run shop.

But he specifically asked for the female loos, rather than the male ones. What he 'wants to be' is pretty irrelevant, he is male.

I can understand not wanting to use the male loos if you 'pass' as a woman and its a communal area, where other men could be. But a single room? Nah. I don't get it.

Flamingowings · 14/02/2018 23:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Valentinesfart · 14/02/2018 23:37

What about trans men. Do they have the same problems women do? I don't think they do. If they've had testosterone and are now huge and muscley, are they likely to be sexually assaulted like the women in today are (even though, they are still women in your eyes right?) it's confusing

Very few transmen are "huge". They don't get taller and get massive muscles, they look like women. They look like women with short hair. And yes, they do get sexually assaulted.

One was even raped by a transwoman who then posted about it all over the internet and still got to speak at the women's march

MagicSweets · 14/02/2018 23:36

@TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole - erm because he wants to be a woman? I don't know. He asked because he needed a key. It's a small privately run shop.

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TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/02/2018 23:35

I just already feel like people on here think trans men are felt sorry for and need protecting. Yet trans woman are awful and rape.

Transmen are female. And transwomen are male.

Male people are much much mroe likely to commit sexual violence.

None thinks all transwomen are rapists. But all transwomen are male. And male people are not female. So should not be in female spaces (though personally I would make an exception for post op transsexuals, others may not though)

AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 23:35

I've seen plenty of trans men out and about. It's not hard to tell that they're female. If I can tell, so can rapists.

TruScum · 14/02/2018 23:33

I just already feel like people on here think trans men are felt sorry for and need protecting. Yet trans woman are awful and rape

Transwomen commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as men do (probably slightly higher now)

Transmen commit violent and sexual crime at the same rate as women do.

thebewilderness · 14/02/2018 23:32

I think that just as tolerance has come to mean submit, so now does acceptance come to mean serve.
If you listen to what trans identified males say they want from women they really are telling you who they are and you really should take the advice of Maya Angelou and believe them.

Valentinesfart · 14/02/2018 23:32

What if they were trans as a child? Had puberty blockers and had hormone treatment. Have they still been socialised as a boy?

I have sympathy for them as they were abused but they still aren't women.

Also meant to say agender not abinary!

Myunicornfliessideways · 14/02/2018 23:32

He is not being described as getting off on it. I asked you to think honestly about why a male presenting TIM would be happy to be allowed to use the women's loos in those circumstances. If you think it through - and are aware of autogynephilia - it's an uncomfortable but very likely thing to consider. And it does have to be considered if you're advocating for self ID. women and girls and their spaces should not have to be props in other people's fantasies.

Trans men when seen outside of carefully staged pictures are usually easily recognised as women as transwomen are easily recognised as men, humans have evolved to pick up very easily and quickly on secondary sex characteristics. Look at videos of poor little Jazz Jennings who has been on hormones, never had a puberty and has been socialised as a transgirl. Even Jazz doesn't easily pass when you see them talking and moving.

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