Can you be a feminist and be completely accepting of transgender individuals?

magic

Youve never seen a woman with short hair

Ive obviously misunderstood that

I was just trying to make sense in my head why most of them say "from a young age I have always liked dresses and pink" and how the little boys they were, were happy to do that and encouraged, but as they grew older they became self conscious over it and saw all their male classmates liking certain things and they didn't,

That's about rigid gender roles. Not sex. Masculinity particularly is a pretty toxic cage for some men.

I wish men would have the courage of all the feminist pioneers over the last 300 years and DO something about the horrible bullying nature of masculinity.

Have a look at the wonderful work Michael Conroy does with "A Call to Men" (you can follow him on Twitter too, he's a fabulous feminist ally)

A Call to Men

I don't think anyone on MN doesn't call those few transwomen who speak up "she". Do a search on Miranda Yardley. But yes, I do have a problem with calling Danielle Muscato she. Wanders around with male pattern baldness and a beard, argues his way into women's refuges, gets actual women kicked out and says we can suck his dick. Why the fuck should I be nice> he isn't a woman.

You didn't answer my questions though. Still waiting.

This is a lovely "family" photo of them all.

Also I'm curious if you would be happy with transabled people using disabled parking?

@MagicSweets

Do you pretend that white transracial people are black? Should they take university scholarships from black people? Should they be allowed to take space in quotas for BME people? It would hurt their feelings to pretend they aren't black so I hope so.

This is StephOnKnee (geddit?)She is six years old. She has sex with an adult couple she calls mummy and daddy and has playdates with "cis"6 year old children. Would you be happy with her in your child's reception class?

The Canadian Government have thanked her officially for help campaigning for transwomen's rights.

Also no massive adam's apple like our friend Riley.

Also just out of curiosity, do trans men really look that feminine? All the photos I have seen, are of ones that look rather masculine, maybe just a little feminine but still like men to me. Many of them grow beards and put on muscle to some extent. Of course it may just be that the ones presented in photos are carefully chosen

The ones that make it on to mens health or are rolled out to scare women "Do you want this man in your toilets" are obviously pretty big and pass.

But seriously the majority you see on youtube, tumbler etc are clearly women. Women have higher percentage of body fat, average about 5 ft 3. Dressed in "men's" clothing. Basically no different to how a lot of lesbians have been dressing for years.

Leading, goady question.

Like women, men need to adapt their look with age. Though it's probably harder to carry off make up as a man if you are carrying a little too much comfortable weight. And now I'm thinking of the David Walliams' mate, the guy in the babygrow in shooting stars.

I dunno, I've met some men in their 40s who still look great in the goth/glam looks. Once again though, they all know that they're men, and they're not doing the someone threw a bunch of melted crayons at your face and then dressed you in a 10 year old girls party outfit from 1985 look that Alok and friends do.

I was looking at photos of Brian Eno yesterday with his floral blouses, long hair and lip gloss

Yes, but it only suits young men though, and yes to Adam Ant being gorgeous and full on male in his eyeliner - I think it was his dancing though that did it for me

Mmmm. Happy sigh. Adam Ant. Those were the days.

Eyeliner and long hair for me, please. There are still multiple scenes where men do that whole thing without pretending to be women, and it's attractive in a way that the sort of weird 80s clown makeup that Alok Vaid-Menon for example does is not.

I always had a soft spot for a bloke in mascara

Eyeliner for me. I reckon a lot of guys really suit it and it looks quite..striking. I asked DH to put some on once in private, but he wouldn't. A few weeks later, he was dancing on a pool table in my dress, knee high boots, wig and face full of makeup for a mates birthday

That was not hot. At all.

*the

18centurybodies.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/male-make-up-in-eighteenth-century-england/

In the 18th century many men, known as fops or beaus wore make up, rouge, powdered wigs, high heels, silk etc. yet none appeared to decide they were women. Interestingly, there were stories of their aggressive heterosexuality.

Sound familiar?

I always had a soft spot for a bloke in mascara

So did I. Still he same 2 kids later...

Shame they mostly end up looking more Emily Howard than Adam Ant, which might explain why they didn't try it the first time round.

I always had a soft spot for a bloke in mascara

'accepting' means 'tolerance', not 'capitulating'.

No, women will not tolerate biological men invading womens spaces.
If TIMs want to fight for their own spaces and services we'll cheerfully support them.

If you're talking about nice - rape threats and doxxing isn't nice. Why don't you ask the TRAs to be nice ?

I have an issue with self-ID. It's men in woman-face using male privilege to absolutely take the piss out of women, enter our spaces and trample on our rights. Self-ID needs to go. I'd have thought if one actually reads the boards it would be obvious what the issue is. If you don't read you'll land here asking silly questions won't you.

Perhaps this current explosion in numbers of men my age transing is nostalgia. They weren't confident enough to go full glam as teens in the 80s, so they are doing it now.

Sorry, that's a bit glib.