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Original poster

Age of Consent in France [Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

35 replies

AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 11:05

WTF? Did other people know about this? How has this possibly been allowed to continue until 2018?

France does not have a legal age under which a minor cannot agree to a sexual relationship – although the country’s top court has ruled that children aged five and under cannot consent. Lawyers for the suspect argued that the girl was consenting and aware of what she was doing, while lawyers for the girl have said she was simply too young and confused to resist.

So six year olds can legally consent, then? Because they're so much more developmentally advanced than 5 year olds?

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/14/french-girl-11-not-a-child-say-lawyers-for-man-29-accused-of-sexual-abuse

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meditrina · 16/02/2018 23:33

"BBC article, what's the point of having an official age of consent if having sex with someone under it is...what? Kind of a crime but not really?"

Well, that what exists here, isn't it? Age of consent 16 (18 in some cases) but strict liability for under 13 and varying degrees inbetween (such as age of both).

I doubt very much it would be set as low as 5. As the age of consent is a type are lowere there than here, them similar for age under which it's strict liability, so perhaps 12 or 13?

ChipVinegar · 16/02/2018 23:25

Bloody hell. (Haven't yet read the link only posts on the thread)

Probably going off topic to this case but...

I wonder if it would make more sense if there was an age gap limit with consent, say for example 5 years max between that was legal until after 16/18 as for example a 20 year old boy with an almost 16 year old girl... I'm not sure predator is quite the right word when it would be fine for a 22 year old to be with a 17 year old and raise no eyebrows

But fuck France Sad a 6 year old could consent??? How???

UrsulaPandress · 16/02/2018 22:21

Every day's a new day.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 16/02/2018 22:16

It may well also compromise his ability to understand what the problem is, depending on how he's rationalized his own situation.

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BarrackerBarmer · 16/02/2018 22:15

I've been wondering how Macron will handle this kind of issue of consent.

His teacher had a sexual relationship with him when he was a minor.
But he cannot condemn this situation.
Because he is now married to her.

It isn't specifically about the age of consent, but it does compromise his ability to unequivocally condemn an adult having sex with a minor, and it certainly compromises his ability to declare that children can NOT consent in this situation.

www.independent.co.uk/news/emmanuel-macron-parents-how-discovered-affair-drama-teacher-brigitte-trogneux-dating-french-a7724201.html

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 16/02/2018 22:07

I mean don't get me wrong, it's a grotesque argument in either case, but setting the age so low strips away any pretense that you could maybe if you squint and pretend that rape culture, predatory adults, and grooming don't exist be talking about an adolescent who has some interest in sex.

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Ereshkigal · 16/02/2018 21:59

Yes, Angry, I can see how you can argue that there is a difference between a 13 year old "consenting" and being raped, rightly or wrongly. However I can't see how a 6 year old could be said to consent in any meaningful way, being purely unemotive about it.

hipsterfun · 16/02/2018 21:39

“She was 11 years and 10 months old, so nearly 12 years old,” the defence lawyer Marc Goudarzian said Tuesday. “It changes the story. So she is not a child.”

I strongly disagree.

His colleague Sandrine Parise-Heideiger went further, saying: “We are not dealing with a sexual predator on a poor little faultless goose.”

I strongly disagree.

She said as soon as children have “sexual expressiveness and you have an attitude of putting yourself in danger” then “it doesn’t necessarily mean the person on the other side is a sexual predator”.

I strongly disagree.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 16/02/2018 21:25

I'm still stuck on how they came up with 5 as the "definitely rape" age, given that that's nowhere near puberty.

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Ereshkigal · 16/02/2018 21:09

If there is exploitation or a power balance involved the age of consent is technically 18.

Ereshkigal · 16/02/2018 21:08

But not fucking 6, FFS.

Ereshkigal · 16/02/2018 21:07

It's actually the same here to an extent. Only sex with a child of 12 or younger is automatically rape. But sex with a child under 16 is illegal and carries similar penalties depending on the circumstances.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 16/02/2018 18:15

I wonder why it's taken so long for the legal loophole to come to light?

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/02/2018 17:41

It is horrifying that if a 6 year old cannot show that they refused or resisted somehow, it isn't considered rape. And the sentence is only up to 5 years, not 20. When anyone with half a brain and some small empathy for children would realise that sexually abusing a 6 year old is an appalling crime deserving a much more serious sentence.

A 6 year old wouldn't even know what was happening. And be terrified, freeze with shock.

frenchfancy · 16/02/2018 17:31

Many people in France are shocked too. It doesn't seem to have come up as an issue before -or at least not recently. I can only assume the facts in this case made the authorities apply the strict letter of the law. He can still get a 5 year sentence but it won't be classed as rape.

BigFishy · 16/02/2018 17:27

I am shocked.

doctorcuntybollocks · 14/02/2018 11:51

A six year old has to prove that she resisted?

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 11:47

Done! Thanks Datun.

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Datun · 14/02/2018 11:44

You can ask mumsnet to edit your title.

I think you can do it by reporting your own post and asking then.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 11:39

I really want to know where they got 5 from as the age where it's definitely deemed coercive below that. 5? Really? So, say, 8 would be totally different?

Wish I could edit the thread title to be clearer.

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frenchfancy · 14/02/2018 11:38

Ok - the legal age of consent is 15, so a 18 year old in a relastionship and having sex with a 15 yr old is legal. Under 15 it is not legal, but they are claiming that in order for a crime to be classed as rape, rather than sex with a minor, then the child needs to have refused, tried to get away, hit the man etc.

All came about because a 28 yr old man had sex with an 11 yr old, but because she didn't run away, scream and hit it has been decided that it is sex with a minor rather than rape - so 5 years max rather than 20 years.

TemporarySign · 14/02/2018 11:36

Just shows that there should be a special hell for lawyers.

Obviously an 11 yr old does not know what's happening and cannot resist an adult either emotionally or physically. Well done France, demonstrating idiocy and exactly what you think of women and girls to the world.

Original poster
AngryAttackKittens · 14/02/2018 11:35

RE BBC article, what's the point of having an official age of consent if having sex with someone under it is...what? Kind of a crime but not really? Also, if the new law being debated sets the age at which it's deemed coercion at 13, do you then have a category of 13 to 15 years old with whom sex is technically illegal but not deemed coercive, so that's OK then?

What a mess.

OP posts:
SweetMoon · 14/02/2018 11:34

Age of consent in France is 15.

dragongirlx · 14/02/2018 11:32

This one made me bang my head of the wall in despair