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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Word of Mouth Radio 4 today transgender

56 replies

whoputthecatout · 13/02/2018 17:20

Did anyone hear this at 4pm today? I was in the car and missed the names of the guests but basically it was half an hour of a trans woman explaining how everything should revolve around trans and other minority groups when it comes to words, language and how we use them.

"Cis" apparently is used to show someone is not trans, as in to show the world that 99.5% of the population has to be explained as not trans. FFS. An oleagenous question from the presenter about whether the trans person could understand why some might be confused or angry about such terms was met with "of course" (as in let me explain it to you silly people) and explained away as in people not wanting to get things - such as pronouns - wrong or simply too entrenched to realise words and language need to change (to satisfy the 0.5% was the unspoken implication).

While lecturing how it was so important to address trans people in the way they wished to be addressed (inclusivity is everything) they seemed blissfully oblivious to the fact that their own rules did not apply to them being equally considerate of the non trans majority.

At this point I arrived home to my relief and switched off. My blood pressure gradually reverted to normal.

I have never heard such self-regarding, narcissistic arrogance dressed up as sweet reason before. But, it is the BBC I suppose. Must be on the right side of history and all that......

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BeUpStanding · 20/02/2018 23:42

Oh yes, I also listened to Word of Mouth and thought it was hideously one-sided stuffed full of patronising, self-indulgent nonsense.

BeUpStanding · 20/02/2018 23:39

The comments under that interview on YouTube are brilliant Grin

hipsterfun · 20/02/2018 23:23

It’s no surprise to me that Goldsmiths has gone the way it’s gone.

Ereshkigal · 20/02/2018 16:01

He rather put me in mind of the sort of baby boomer, social science types at Goldsmiths who are probably counting their lucky stars they’ve retired and don’t have to keep pandering to the identity politics agenda.

Especially considering what the students at Goldsmiths are like.

catkind · 20/02/2018 15:56

I knew there'd be a thread. I was really pleased to see the topic come up as I thought it would get some intellectual rigour and balance. Really shocked at that pathetic one sided view.
How about a bit of challenge?
Q: What is a woman?
A: Anyone that feels like they're a woman.
Circular argument. Complete nonsense, can't believe Rosen let them get away with it.

Talking about definitions. The interviewee was trying to define "trans" as anyone who is discriminated against because of their "gender identity". No attempt to define gender identity. Some serious moving of gateposts there. What would the implications be there?

CaptainWarbeck · 15/02/2018 13:25

Oh I rather love Michael Rosen.

I thought he did a good job of seeming relatively non plussed by the whole business.

ChickenPaws · 14/02/2018 22:26

What a load of navel gazing shite Grin

hipsterfun · 14/02/2018 22:24

Poor Michael. what does one do if one is a good old fashioned liberal faced with such mind numbing nonsense

He rather put me in mind of the sort of baby boomer, social science types at Goldsmiths who are probably counting their lucky stars they’ve retired and don’t have to keep pandering to the identity politics agenda.

nauticant · 14/02/2018 21:52

That performance by CN Lester is another peak for me.

The approach is straightforward. Everything is so complicated that nothing can have certainty. Therefore it becomes impossible to have boundaries based on objective reality. The only realities are personal feelings so they can be rigorously maintained.

Except. Some people's personal feelings do not count enough and so their boundaries cannot be maintained. But these people aren't sufficiently special so it's not a problem.

Mouthandtrousersall · 14/02/2018 18:41

Oh dear, that interview is cringe worthy. She sounds ridiculous. A complete fantasist. Who is taken in by this nonsense? She has disappeared right up her her own arse.

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 18:14

Yes she is absolutely superb. A bit like seeing Jack Monroe with Julia Long.

PhilODox · 14/02/2018 17:41

I'm not Sarah! Grin

CecilyNeville · 14/02/2018 17:31

I honestly don't know how Sarah manages to keep her cool to the extent she does.

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 17:05

Bringing up Rosemary West was the worst bit.

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 17:02

That interview is so so painful

CecilyNeville · 14/02/2018 16:21

Every time I see the word 'interesting' on this thread, I am reminded of the Newsnight item a couple of years ago with Sarah Ditum and CN, where the latter uses 'interesting' 43 billion times.

PhilODox · 14/02/2018 15:18

I heard it too, and was interested that cis was pronounced "sizz".
That's not how I would say it.

Whatever side one comes down on, listening to CN was interesting, purely because they have a lovely voice.

But I don't think cis is needed any more than we need a word for someone who hasn't lost an arm, or someone that isn't from TONGA.

There's already a word for me- a woman.

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 15:11

Cathy Brennan was funny about the dating scene online for lesbians. It's full of TIMS and of course taboo to openly reject such as potential partners. She put ' I only want to meet someone I can give cunnilingus to'Grin

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 15:09

So clear and unoppressive don't you think?

nauticant · 14/02/2018 15:07

The phrases the old fashioned cunty type of woman and penis people never fail to lift my mood.

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 15:05

Did you notice her friend Ruth is a woman, while the old fashioned cunty type of woman are 'cis women'?

vaginafetishist · 14/02/2018 15:00

Good idea, I'll do it!

CecilyNeville · 14/02/2018 13:28

It wasn't an order! Of course don't, if you feel disinclined.

Horridemma · 14/02/2018 13:23

You draw up the e-mail and we will use it

CecilyNeville · 14/02/2018 13:21

Let's all write in to say it was remiss not to address why 'cis' is offensive. In the most erudite terms!

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