We're being spammed

okay the venn is ready.
would anyone be kind enough to tell me how to post a picture?

Is it any wonder people don't stick around though? Whenever anyone offers a point of view that doesn't fit neatly in the accepted MN cannon everyone piles in with so much vitriol it must be quite an uphill struggle.

Yes I'll high five MNHQ with you. I know TSSDNCOP but I would be very interested in what made them peak trans change their editorial stance to allow debate.

The above is why I lean towards don't bother engaging with the sealions. People spend a lot of time and emotional energy on it and it can be draining and frustrating. That energy could be put to better use engaging with people who aren't just here to sealion and the person engaging with the non-sealion would feel happier afterwards.

It's like a vampire, don't invite them into your house (unless you have the sort of personality where treating them like a cat toy is amusing for you, in which case have at it).

I agree OP that sealions can provide really brilliant opportunities to pose and clarify our arguments. But it's a tricky balancing act because there's usually a point of no return on a sealioned thread where the argument has been gradually derailed and everyone is arguing passionately about points so abstruse that the debate becomes very hard to follow and rather offputting. Or it turns into a dogpile of exasperated posters.

We need some way of saying OK this is getting silly now. Or something.

carrier

The fact remains, no one, but no one has come up with any arguements apart from "i just don't like trans people".

Having spent a considerable amount of time writing replies to your questions and comments on the sports thread, I am hurt that this is how you choose to characterise what I said, especially as I neither said those words, nor implied them. And if you don’t mean me in your comment, then you are being unreasonable to claim that no one has come up with anything. As it is, a fair amount of people have talked to you in a rational manner, and cited all sorts of examples both scientific and anecdotal.

History has proven time and time again that the middle ground if often the way forward. There is surely some common ground to be found in the venn diagram of womanhood?

Can you describe this diagram? Tell me what attributes belong in each of the little circles such that I (traditionally thought of as a woman) am in one which intersects with transwomen, but my sons and male partner aren't in that intersection?

Basically, I'm a programmer. My world is consists of me defining things for a living. I know, that if someone asks me to write a report, I need to be able to define exactly what they want in that report, because 'fuzzy' just doesn't exist. I am looking for a definition of woman that makes transwomen are women == true, with some justification other than 'because I say so'

I can define female and woman as I see them if it helps.

Personally, I'd be happy to hand femininity over to the transwomen if they want it so much, but I know that most women are more feminine than me, and quite like wearing dresses and lipstick occasionally, so since I don't feel strongly either way myself, I say lets share that. Anyone can be feminine. Woman is a matter of biology though. If DP and I bump uglies, only one of us could ever get pregnant, and it will always be me. That's why I'm a woman, and he's a man.

I think it's a good idea to remind lurkers that are are trolled and sealioned a lot on this board and in the main, posters are patient and polite.

But it's worth the trollers knowing that we see them

There is surely some common ground to be found in the venn diagram of womanhood?

What is this purported "Venn diagram of womanhood"? A Venn diagram of the sexes would have two separate circles that barely touch (intersex conditions affecting less than 1% of the population). The one labelled "woman" would be slightly bigger than the one labelled "man" (we are 52% of the world's population)

Always quite fancied St Petersburgh

"the venn diagram of womanhood?"
This sounds ace. Can you share a pic? I've yet to see a definition of womanhood that includes all women in trans women, and excludes all men inc trans men.

Can it be the St Petersberg that's in Florida? It's a bit boring there and full of crazy people with guns, but at least it's warm and there are fresh oranges.

Sharks in the water. Farewell and adieu to you ...

What have you done for anyone lately?

I'm too GNC to obey my socialisation and do anything for anyone else, ever. OBVIOUSLY. Duh.

for all we know all the anti-trans posts could be coming from a St Petersberg troll farm.

LOL. I don't think so. We all know enough gender critical people IRL to know that this isn't true.

At least she hasn't told anyone they're irrelevant and should give up their career.

Well, she's made me laugh a lot!