Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

581 replies

JenniferJames · 12/02/2018 20:36

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

OP posts:
TriniRedVelvet · 13/02/2018 16:17

"comrades" is certainly telling of the leanings of you and perhaps your party. No thanks.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 13/02/2018 16:15

Those at the sharp end will draw confort from the knowledge they are part of a larger issue

When there is no longer the term women then we cant name the problems with massive parts of our society

And that will cut both ways

I appreciate that it doesn't matter to you make

CurriedNoodle · 13/02/2018 16:14

I don't think you are quite understanding makeourfuture bot.

If the Tory party state that they will not back self ID, that my children will be kept safe from sterilisation and dogma at school, and that a penis is not a female organ then I will vote for them.

Even if they do for some strange reason decide to steal my wheelchair. (Though hyperbolic party vs party rhetoric only divides women, we must, and already seem to be, rising above it)

Everyonematters · 13/02/2018 16:13

KERALA keep telling people about it, the more people who know, the more political pressure will build up.

Why not ask the friend about it? Tell them your concerns and ask for reassurance. Either you will get that or help them think through the implications.

Make it known where you can that you will be voting based on this. If on twitter for eg there is #labourlosingwomen or when people come to canvas.

The game is to raise awareness and build political pressure for change so there is a party you CAN vote for.

TerfyMcTerface · 13/02/2018 16:12

makeourfuture

The slogans you keep posting here have all the terse and thought-free hallmarks of newspeak. That doesn't really say much for the regime you support.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 13/02/2018 16:12

Those at the sharp end will draw confort from the knowledge they are part of a larger issue.

What does this even mean??!!

Stop with the meaningless slogans & soundbites - they're nonsensical.

mirialis · 13/02/2018 16:06

I guess we don't vote and state why on the ballot paper until one of the electable parties breaks cover?

KERALA1 · 13/02/2018 16:05

I don't move in particularly political circles - except once a year when we see DH's friends who work in politics (Labour). Haven't dared raised this with them.

No one IRL is aware of this issue btw except one of my NCT friends who posts gender critical stuff on facebook that everyone agrees with. I explained self ID to DH and he actually didn't believe me as he thought it was too preposterous. We enjoy the guardian but will stop buying it. Cannot vote Labour now. Who do we vote for?!

mirialis · 13/02/2018 16:04

Like Curried who has said she is both disabled and a carer?

makeourfuture · 13/02/2018 16:03

this issue overrides that

Those at the sharp end will draw confort from the knowledge they are part of a larger issue.

CurriedNoodle · 13/02/2018 16:02

I did mean between the two main parties.

And I think it is snowballing now, as long as we keep nudging it along it'll be smashing into the general public awareness soon.

I'm still waiting to hear back from my MP (tory - marginal area) who I emailed yesterday outlining my concerns, what the changes will mean, exactly how the public is going to react as soon as they are aware of it and that the party who steps up to support women first will get my vote.

mirialis · 13/02/2018 15:58

Who here will refute this?

Even if the answer to that is no one, are you not hearing the fact that this issue overrides that because, as CurryNoodles said, what does it matter if the class of "women" is meaningless?

Everyonematters · 13/02/2018 15:53

I add a caveat to the point the first party to call against self-ID will win, which is AS LONG AS PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF IT. Get talking to people.

makeourfuture · 13/02/2018 15:50

The tories' murderous and brutal attack

Who here will refute this?

Everyonematters · 13/02/2018 15:48

I'll call it right now. The first party to give disenfranchised women a strong message that they oppose self-ID will win the next election.

I think of the two mainstream parties this is true.

I will not vote UKIP. But this is the closest I've come to even considering it. Admittedly that is not very close, but I think it could win them votes from some.

mirialis · 13/02/2018 15:40

For those who can't read the times articles here is something else JT said:

Interviewed on The Andrew Marr Show, Corbyn said that he’d talk to Bellos and other feminists to try to reach a compromise. But it is a tough circle to square. Harriet Harman too supports self-ID but also wants stop men exploiting their access to women’s spaces. But how, Harriet, if they’ve got every right to be there?

Between the two opposing camps is the unscalable wall of biology

This is the thing, isn't it? There is just no compromise to be had when we are being expected to deny biological reality. So, yes, the first of the actual electable parties who gets off the fence in favour of women will get the votes.

TheXXFactor · 13/02/2018 15:39

The first party to give disenfranchised women a strong message that they oppose self-ID will get my vote.

Same - as long as it's not UKIP

Terftastic · 13/02/2018 15:37

Well said, Curried.

UKIP aren't an option - they'd do away with maternity rights as soon as blink.

But any political party that aren't lunatics, this:

*I'll say it right now. The first party to give disenfranchised women a strong message that they oppose self-ID will get my vote.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 13/02/2018 15:35

makeourfuture we are fully aware that Labour and Corbyn can do anything and you would still follow them.

must be time for bots to sign off for the day soon

mirialis · 13/02/2018 15:35

Has Diane Abbott said anything?

BlindYeo · 13/02/2018 15:32

I'll call it right now. The first party to give disenfranchised women a strong message that they oppose self-ID will win the next election.

That would be UKIP curried. I don't see it happening somehow.

Lillylollylandy · 13/02/2018 15:32

Heidi Alexander is against us, if you're keeping a list.

CurriedNoodle · 13/02/2018 15:30

I'm a disabled woman and carer.

I really dislike the implication that any political point scoring is more important than this issue.

What good are services meant for me going to do, when my sex doesn't exist in anything but name? The word 'woman' will be unrecognisable and unquantifiable. How can I access things meant to help me then?

I will eat out of a food bank happily for the rest of my days if that is the only alternative to having to give up my rights, to spaces designed to keep me safe from male misconduct, and to my own freedom of thought. I will never, ever believe that a penis is anything but male and they can't make me.

mirialis · 13/02/2018 15:27

And yet I think it's true that if Greening and May said "ok we have listened and we will not be proposing any changes to the GRA - we recognise the need to support the rights of transgender people but must work on a way to do this in such a way that women's rights are not harmed", some left-leaning women would vote for them.

KittiesInsane · 13/02/2018 15:26

I have just sent the Spectator article(s) to my son, who got very jittery that 'he's misgendered people!', and to my BIL, who had 'not heard anything about any of that' ('that' encompassing males on women-only shortlists, males in women's contact sports, males in women-only wards, males in women-only refuges, males in women-only loos, the rash of schoolchildren coming out as transgender, etc, etc, etc... you name it, he hadn't come across it. I think he was quite glad to be allowed to drink his tea and go home).