Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

If even the union leaders are afraid of voicing an opinion on this (ie people who are not normally scared to say what they think, particularly in a supportive place such as the Labour Party), then that sums up exactly what is wrong with the #NoDebate approach adopted by TRAs

Interesting that you think Momentum are behind the current push. I've said elsewhere on here that I can't support a Labour Party where Momentum are so influential

I have heard rumours that a number of the leaders of the big unions are against self-id but are afraid of the backlash that will happen if they come out and say it

Sorry but, in my book, that's worse than them having swallowed the Kool-Aid. If leaders with all the power of a big union behind them are prepared to give away women's rights just because SJWs will be mean to them on Twitter, then they don't deserve to be leaders.

I have heard rumours that a number of the leaders of the big unions are against self-id but are afraid of the backlash that will happen if they come out and say it.

It's good though - perhaps an 'avalanche effect' when one comes out to say it? Like #MeToo.

Eventually it'll get to the stage of "you can't sack all of us!"

( I veer from downright despair at our future handmaiden existence - to giddy hope - every hour or so...! )

I supported the campaign as a legal principle. What you are doing is fantastic and I am glad you have made a stand.

I really don't give a shit about the Labour party or Corbyn. This is a women's issue and is cross-party. I'm in Scotland and unless we convince the SNP (ha!) then self-id will happen here, and by default also in England/Wales.

Corbyn is an absolute twit. I’ll never vote Labour again until he’s gone.

Jennifer, have you read this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3162788-Whats-it-like-being-gender-critical-in-your-workplace

If Corbyn does indeed think it's all about men who have had surgery etc then he's either a muppet or wilfully ignoring what women have been trying to tell him. Neither is a good look for a leader.

I have heard rumours that a number of the leaders of the big unions are against self-id but are afraid of the backlash that will happen if they come out and say it.

See, that's the very issue, in a nutshell!

It's not enough for leaders to secretly hold opinions unless they're also willing to take a stand - even if it comes at a personal risk!

Make that happen and you have my vote!

Actually: help me make that happen, at a personal risk if it must be, and you've still got my vote!

Well as someone with a Jewish family, I'll pass on voting Labour until Corbyn has gone and they deal with the bullying and anti semitism in the party.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East

Thanks for the laugh. Best joke I've heard in ages!

i think Corby, still thinks it's transsexuals who go through a major change and surgery

Then i think he is an idiot who has put action before thought and research

I think self styled Corbynistas are too blinkered to really understand the profound disappointment it is to find an ignorant misogynist deep at the root of any left wing politician. His lack of awareness and involvement on this issue is deeply offensive and whilst I'm not rushing off to join the other side I do not feel, with good conscience, I could vote for anyone who dismisses women so readily.

"Through the worst of it now, it's settling down a bit and the debate is starting to happen".

It is. And not just in the Labour Party or on Mumsnet either. It is going far beyond all of that into ordinary people's lives, and so it should. This needs to be right out in the open with the spotlight shining right on it.

You've achieved a lot. And it has already cost you a lot. Take a back seat and allow others to use their own voices. It's already happening.

My hope is that people see it as a democratic movement of many women of different backgrounds and different political leanings (and none) coming together and speaking out against self-ID. And not a one-woman crusade, where they can write her off as a gobby Twitter warrior.

This will not be a short fight. This is going to take years. So you have to pace yourself.

As a life long labour voter, if not party member, I am worried.
Jeremy seems to be popular with younger people (old gimmer here, I can remember Harold Wilson and "the pound in your pocket ".
I grew up in Yorkshire- was a teen during the miners strike.
I was not convinced by him, I have heard these policies before during the 70's and they didn't work then.

I cannot vote Tory, I don't trust the libdems so that leaves Labour. Who are doing very little it seems about the monumental fuck up that is Brexit and now are about to throw Women’s (and I mean women, stuff that self id crap) out the window.

Politically I feel lost at the moment, my natural "home" is labour, but can I vote for a party which has Madigan as a womens officer?

Thank you for your bravery in putting yourself forward to represent what so many of us are thinking!

Feel better soon JJ

Of course this isn't a right wing attempt to split the left - the left are doing this all on their own. I've voted Labour for decades and have never dreamed of voting anything else - I'm furious that JC is making me vote for another party.

As for Angela Eagle - she's my MP - and I hate everything she stands for.

Love you, Jen and I think you are one of the bravest feminists going at the moment. You've risked a lot.

I am just about clinging on to Labour membership just now but I won't be voting for the party or campaigning for the party until it has a pro-woman agenda. Forced minor compromises on the trans self-ID on AWS issue just won't cut it. It needs a comprehensive manifesto-based set of policies that drop self-ID and strengthen EA single sex exemptions before I even consider voting Labour again. I am trying to persuade my CLP to pass an anti self-ID motion.

As for Jezza. As I've said on another thread here - there's nothing I'd like more than to believe that he isn't yet properly aware of the issues. I'm a socialist, not a centrist. I like Jezza. But there is no way in hell it's true that he doesn't know. He does know. How can he not? He's made a choice and it's an anti-woman choice. We have to be honest with ourselves about that.

The aim is to force him to recalculate the optics. Not to pretend to ourselves that he's an undercover ally in this.

Sorry. I know that's not what you want to hear.

Again - thanks for everything you have done. You are a warrior.

At this moment, I firmly intend to spoil my ballot by drawing a big, fat dick on it in pink lipstick!

I am spoiling mine with [ #Sexnotgender ] [ XX ]

This is a marathon not a sprint

My view is that we need labour to sort themselves out precisely because we can't afford another conservative government and because women are not going to vote for self-id. If this is a right wing attempt to split the left (not implausible) then we need, as a matter of urgency, to point out to the left what is happening.

Look after yourself JJ

Hi JJ
The right-wing press definitely got hold of all this first (apart from the Morning Star) - there is a definite theme going on in all of the reporting "the left eating itself" and I know that is the last message you wanted to send out.

But I am desperate for a Labour politician, preferably JC to strongly stand up for women and call out those engaged in the witch hunt.

The fact you haven't lost hope in the Labour party in spite of your poor treatment sends a message that there is still hope to transform the party into one we feel we can vote for.

But it all feels a bit tenuous. JC is being a bit too vague for my liking.

@JenniferJames, I want to be able to vote Labour! I've voted Labour all my life. I've been an on-again-off-again LP member despite being an anarchist at heart - because I'm also a pragmatist.

But the way the LP is going at present, I couldn't get myself to vote for it in good conscience. The self-ID issue killed it for me!

On the upside: I'm not voting for anyone else either. At this moment, I firmly intend to spoil my ballot by drawing a big, fat dick on it in pink lipstick!

I re-iterate: I do want to be able to vote Labour. All the LP has to do is convince me that it's not throwing women under the bus!

PS: Jeremy is an over-simplistic populist; I don't appreciate his style. But this alone wouldn't stop me from voting Labour if the LP wasn't dead-set on actively discouragig me.

If you think that Corbyn simply isn't aware of what is going on in the Labour Party right now (including allowing a self-IDing transwoman to take a Women's Officer post), then either he is derelict in his duties to know about an issue that is upsetting so many of his members (bad); or he knows and does not care (badder).