Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

@DarthArts

It's not MN against JC - it's a lot worse than that.

Yup.

MN didn’t bring me to these threads, wanting to learn what all the (to me) sudden fuss about transwomen was about bought me to MN. I imagine it’s the same for others too? It still seems that the perception of MN is that one day lots of middleclass mothers went from discussing nappies and glitter on cupcakes to being massive TERFs. The Spectator article and Twitter in general seem to fail to grasp that the MN feminist boards are full of women from all social and political backgrounds. MN is not a corner of the internet, it is fully representative of all women from all walks of life.

I'm struggling to believe that Labour is now this fucked up. First they alienate me first as a 48 per center, and then even more viciously as a 50 per center.

How do you reform that from within?

Are the unions really afraid of Lily Madigan on Twitter? The fucking unions?

Jennifer, I do salute you though for everything you have done and achieved. You're incredibly brave. P.s. avoid Thursday at Westminster.

I will spoil my ballot paper in May
Never thought I would be driven to this

The ball is totally in his court. But he has to play it. He can't just ignore it and expect women to shrug and hope.

Datun has nailed it.

I wish I could vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. But I can't. He has a lot of work to do to regain my trust. I'm horrified and disillusioned by the level of misogyny on the left. He has done nothing to stop it. And has actively made things worse.

The left is divided. And this isn't down to right-leaning journalists making valid points about self ID. There is genuine concern on the right too. It's a cross party issue.

I've voted Labour since I could vote.

I may well NEVER vote Labour again and this self-id supporting ignorant bullshit is 100% the reason why.

Labour will have to have a massive U turn to begin to convince me they are not now a fully fledged misogynistic party.

And this is something I said on the other thread, but I'll say it here too:

Transwomen, whether they have had operations and hormones or not, should not be allowed on women-only shortlist because they are not women. They are transwomen and that means their issues, while serious, are not the same as that of women.

If they are to take allocated political space in the Labour Party, then they must take that space from men, not from women. I would support trans-only shortlists, at the cost of men's places, not women's.

The brocialists won't be so keen on them then though, would they.

@AskBasil

Great post and absolutely sums up how I feel.

I'm not going to support a party that fundamentally supports the abuse of women through the "loophole" of denying that women are not a definable biological entity.

Absolutely spot on Dartharts.

I don't recognise Labour anymore and there is no way I am voting for them as things stand.

That's a great analogy, Basil.

Autocorrect!

Sorry, I Jennifer. I follow you on Twitter and really admire you. It's not only JC, but it's also Angela Rayner, McConnell, et al.

I will vote Labour again when they rid themselves of the misogyny that is rotting their core.

"He hasn't had time to consider one of the most existential issues to affect women in a generation, in detail?"

So much this. Thanks Basil

The thing is, the Labour party is a powerful political force with a good chance of getting into government. If you are left wing, isn't it better to reform it from within than abandon it, given that there isn't a left-wing alternative?

Honestly? I don't think he's had time to consider it in detail

He hasn't had time to consider one of the most existential issues to affect women in a generation, in detail?

He hasn't had time to consider the impact on half the population, of what it means to tell them anyone can identify as them and they are bigots if they question it?

That shows exactly what he thinks of women doesn't it.

Jennifer I very much admire what you have done. But you sound like the fundamentalist christian marriage counsellor my friend went to when her husband was battering her: she told her to forgive him, open her heart, remember her marriage and loyalty to him etc. etc. So she did and a few weeks later, he tried to kill her. That's when she stopped listening to that marriage counsellor.

Many of us are done with this abuser, the Labour Party. We won't be going back to him, hoping he will change. We won't be voting Labour at the next election.

I don’t think Labour can lift women out of poverty if the party doesn’t believe that women exist

I agree - but would go further. Poverty (and frankly lack of equitable pay which is still an ongoing issue) is just one aspect where women still statistically fare worse than men.

If the party can't recognise women then all the many issues, where it's statistically proven that women encounter greater prejudice, less opportunity and are perceived as having lesser value all fall into that abyss.

Fundamentally it comes down to one thing for me.

You can't possibly be said support something whilst simultaneously denying its reality.

Labour policy doesn't support women because they don't subscribe to the reality that a woman is an adult human female.

It's not a hard concept to grasp, which is why so many people are aghast at those that seek to keep pretending the Emperor is wearing clothes...

Spot on DarthArts

There is always more choice than Red vs Blue.
Independent. Green/Plaid/SNP. Lib dems. Spoilt ballot. A tactical vote for anyone in place of "vote none of the above".
Our vote is our voice and getting a particular party into power isn't what most of us get. I think red said on another thread that 72 votes won the last election.
So fuck it. Be creative with your vote. Just go to the polling booth :)

I don't care who gets the message out, the quicker the better as far as I'm concerned. And I don't care whether the journalist is on the left or right.

See, I actually happen to care!

The right is not a friend to women.The right is happy to exploit us and to piggy-back on our concerns if (and ONLY if!) it happens to serve their agenda! The right loves to take credit for happening to be in power when the tipping point is reached and women have another breakthrough.

But the right is not, and never has been a friend to women! They might happily exploit the momentum we provide and may pay lip-service to our concerns - but at their core, they keep on working relentlessly for a return to a status quo ante in which people knew their place. And by 'people' I mean women - amongst others.

It is ultimately self-defeating for women to tie our flag up the pole of the right. They might tolerate us for the time being (because we happen to be useful) but we won't and can't, pretty much by definition, have a say in what the end goal looks like.

And while I've been ranting about the right quite a bit in this post, all this is basically just a long-winded way of saying:

The left desperately needs to do better by women because women don't really have any other options in the long run!

@QuentinSummers totally agree. All of this has opened my eyes to the antisemitism and misogyny within the LP, and I am horrified, I had no idea it was so deep-rooted. I have always voted Labour and I work with vulnerable people and see daily how people are being fucked over by austerity. We desperately need an alternative to the Tories and JC is forcing women out just for cheers at Glastonbury.

Politically I feel completely torn. At least the Tories are backtracking on the ridiculous notion of Self-ID. At the ballot box I feel I will have to choose between screwing over the 99% or women and girls.

I'm a bit confused after reading @JenniferJames twitter and her reaction to this issue being sent mainstream...

Surely the issue is bigger than just 'my party vs your party'.

I don't care who gets the message out, the quicker the better as far as I'm concerned. And I don't care whether the journalist is on the left or right.

I don’t think Labour can lift women out of poverty if the party doesn’t believe that women exist

This. Also, Labour's intentions are irrelevant if it can't win power, and it can't win power without women's support.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think Labour can lift women out of poverty if the party doesn’t believe that women exist.

I’m extremely concerned about both young people with gender dysphoria, Young lesbians, and young people with autism. These are not the same situations and we need to be careful to distinguish between them. I am worried that young people will be funnelled into a ‘one size fits all’ treatment plan, at the expense of their long term mental health and ability to lead a fulfilled life.

I am politically centrist, no fixed political abode.

I'm also a mixed race woman
I would not consider voting for a party that throws women under the bus, any more than I would if they threw People of Colour under.

I also agree with Piglet that the level of anti-semitism in the Labour party is unacceptable and I think JC is not taking that seriously either.

Well said Darth. Bang on.