Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

Makeourfuture

I've been down this rabbit hole a long time, the longer I'm involved, the longer I'm convinced that - dramatic as it sounds - we really are in the crucible.

I was looking at photographs yesterday and reading a shonky medical paper outlining the brave and stunning success of inducing lactation in a transwoman (her transman brood mare coughed up the baby obvs).

The doctor was a TIM (transwoman) and the breastfeeder was a TIM - they used a cocktail of drugs and pumps to produce the milk (one that has been banned for 14 years). So essentially you had a man coaching another man to get a baby to suckle his nipples. With much fanfare at how beautiful it all was, and how it was just like what a woman can do.

Once I'd got over the feeling that I needed to smash the furniture, I reaffirmed my commitment that this is the hill I'm going to die on. They can F**K off.

Re spoiling ballots / not voting / switching parties please be aware that spoiling your ballot gives you a unique opportunity to have a voice.

Any message written on a spoilt ballot must be read aloud at the count.

That includes any offensive or rude or otherwise controversial message, as much as a message which makes an important political point.

If you have a local election coming up, which you don't think is going to be earth shatteringly crucial, there is much to be said for voicing your discontent AT the ballot box in this way.

There have always been people against self-id who ultimately out their party politics first. They're naive especially if they think their party will change in power. History proves that won't happen.
Self-id is the most important issue affecting women and it crosses party divides because all parties are failing us.
You only have to look back at all the webchats where representatives from every party failed to answer the 'what is a woman?' question. They think they can drop into MN, patronise us and secure our support. They're deluded.

I should have added, men's hurt feelings on this, and women who are more concerned about men's hurt feelings on this, are of zero interest to me and of zero relevance to what we are about.

This I agree with.

We are in a terrible, pitched battle now between good and evil. The stakes could not be higher.

I donated. I'm a "tory" too according to JJ. I don't regret donating because this issue is too important but in her attempts to defend Corbyn, JJ has just cavalierly dismissed quite a few of us and - as many others have said - we need to stick together as women on this issue, no matter what our political differences. I am not even sure how I feel about AWS (more pro than not) but I still donated to the fund to keep them AW.

I should have added, men's hurt feelings on this, and women who are more concerned about men's hurt feelings on this, are of zero interest to me and of zero relevance to what we are about.

Awful times. The whole GRC and trans-activists agenda is passing the vast vast majority of the GBP by

Mr Pan this is absolutely right. This is where I was a few weeks ago. Now I see this as the biggest political battle of my lifetime. Keep talking to people.

All your votes count, use them and your voices to show people what is going on and the implications. Let them make their own minds up once they can see the whole picture.

Women have the vote and so do their fathers, sons, friends, uncles. We have the power to stand up to this. We need to use it.

No, the comrade stuff is cringeworthy.

And I'm not a fucking socialist

Daisy

Believe me, there are THOUSANDS of us who do not think like Jennifer, I very much hope she'll take a self care break and look after herself and stop projecting her frustrations on to us.

My lack of support for Corbyn was complete well before this, it's not about him, it's about US.

For every woman prepared to play politics with our very serious concerns, there are 100x more who are united on this issue. Take a look at this video, this is Radfems, lefties and Christian right wing women working together in the States, all saying 'biology is not bigotry' and it's not.

Sadly in patriarchy, under which all women have to try and survive, you are going to have one or two, despite their good intentions, that put male approval, and man pleasing above solidarity with all women.

My feminism is for all women, even those women who'd punch me in the face, call me nazi and a terf. My feminism is for women who have different politics to me. My feminism is even for those women who are anti feminist.

We can win this. We've got to stick with reality, this is without a shadow of a doubt an MRA counter revolution and a men's sexual rights movement, which hurts women, kids, and genuine transsexuals - it butchers our language, undermines free speech, deletes our rights, and prioritises the feelings and agenda of sexual fetishists above actual women and actual trans people and is in danger of destabilising our entire political system. It's bigger than any one individual.

You lost me at comrade! Can’t stand all that phoney stuff

Have mailed my Labour MP to ask if she is supporting this, and tweeted Angela R to express disappointment and surprise.

makeourfuture If you are going to quote part of my message it can look a little disingenuous to miss out the bit that needs to be addressed by the left.

"Women are hugely represented within that group and those poor and sick women will see their rights eroded if self-ID is accepted as the way to determine who is a woman. "

I don't see how we can look out for the rights of the poor and sick, by ignoring things that can impact negatively on them.

As i said above, I’m not a Labour voter,
—though quite frankly there’s no one I would vote for now— but I refuse to feel unwelcome and out of place on these threads. The issue is far too important.,

Awful times. The whole GRC and trans-activists agenda is passing the vast vast majority of the GBP by - and I only know of it reading FWR pages here.

Have discussed it with three other Labour members in past two weeks - no-one is aware of this at all. I work in a large public-facing civil service setting - ditto. The almost blanket media silence is extremely alarming.
The ramifications haven't even hit home to the folks I've discussed it with. Everyone is trying really hard to be "inclusive" and painfully liberal.

Am really disappointed to read Angela Rayner MP is up for it. She is otherwise admirable and sits in the next consituency to mine.

I found both articles emcouraging - that a prominent media outlet is encouraging other outlets to shine a light.

I won't ditch membership yet, but come the moment when this aberation-to-sense is passed then I'm out.

Sisters before misters, every time. Not apologizing for that.

Daisy do stay. This fight is happening across the political spectrum, and it needs to if we are to win it.

Howyoualldoworkme Perhaps. I may just read and not comment, we'll see. I just feel so let down by JJ and the views she has voiced here and by blowing kisses to Tory woman on Twitter. For the first time ever, I feel very unwelcome.

Dammit, why don't we have a hug smiley?

I know that it sucks to have someone you admired disappoint you, and I was taken aback by Jennifer's comments at first too. Maybe she'll eventually get past the knee jerk how dare they insult Corbyn stuff, maybe she won't, but either way the fact remains that we're in this together as women like it or not and will be most effective if we're all able to keep that in mind.

make You ok hun?

Thank you OvaHere You've taught me so much too.

Stay with the threads Daisy. I'm going to
This is important for all of us
I'm just voicing a bit of anger and disappointment

AngryAttackKittens I don't feel that way after this thread and it's very sad. No matter what our political stripe we may be, we are all woman who will be badly effected by self ID.

Incidentally, you're one of the woman here who I've learned so much from - thank you!

Daisy and Howyou we are fighting a cause across all political spectrums. Please don't let one thread put you off.

The way I look at it is that I am pro - women and am fighting self ID for all women, those that hold very different political views from me and even those women that would call me TERF for it.

We are, even if some people don't realize that yet. This is too important to be reduced to a squabble between different Labour factions.

We are actually in agreement.

If we stick together we can.

I believed we were all woman fighting a very un-tribal cause.

We are, even if some people don't realize that yet. This is too important to be reduced to a squabble between different Labour factions.