Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

Personally (not saying anyone else should feel the same way) I'm prepared to accept that she is massively frustrated - after what has been an absolutely full on time (widespread abuse, suspension, rejection by 'comrades' etc.) - that it is only the "right wing press" that is supporting her on this issue and feels that it is a ploy to create a further divide in the labour party, for which she does not want to be made responsible. Maybe it partly is but I think it's also because they know that the majority of their readership will agree, as well as pulling in readership from left/centre-leaning women.

As someone said I think upthread - this is the fault of the left wing press, not the right wing press, nor the left-leaning women who are putting this issue above party loyalty.

I am a signed-up "supporter" of The Guardian but I don't read it much at the moment.

What have they said on the issue?

Seems to me that if/when this all blows up in our face the right wing press will be able to quite smugly claim to have been ahead of the game.

Can I not be a leftist who just doesn't really go in for the whole hero worship thing? Why is that not an option? That was honestly my biggest issue with the guy before he got involved in this gender nonsense.

Yes! I'm with you. I'm actually a little disturbed by the hero worship and singing. It's all a bit Chairman Mao for my liking. But even Mao said "women hold up half the sky" -have no idea whether he ever acted in line with this! Men just seem to pay lip service to women, then get us to make the fucking tea and sandwiches

I voted for Jeremy - but I feel very betrayed now. Sorry Jennifer - but he's allowed a fucking trans teenager to orchestrate women being suspended from his party. It's made me so angry.

1. calm down dear

2. finally someone has done something - perhaps you've missed the parlimentary meetings, reams of letters and emails, the secret meetings with barristers, the public meetings, newspaper articles, tv and radio appearances, violent beatings, social media presence, women being doxxed, harrassed and losing their jobs for sticking their necks out on this issue that have been going on for YEARS.

Thanks.

I want to thank you JenniferJames for all that you are doing. And all the other people here who are taking the time and making the effort to explain what is happening. It had all passed me by until very recently and I feel like I am having a sort of Rip Van Winkle experience.

I stopped voting Labour many years ago after the awfulness of Militant Tendency in the 80's and then Tony Blair and Iraq and finally with Jeremy Corbyn I thought Labour had changed and was in with a chance again. So I gave money and joined up for the first time.

Now I feel betrayed. I have replied in harsh terms to their email wanting me to buy the tat 'celebrating' 100 years of some women having the vote.

But who else to vote for? All the main parties seem to have swallowed the nonsense hook line and sinker. At least the Tories have backpedalled a bit, but I can never vote Tory. But I won't be conned again by Labour.

I agree that maybe the campaign needs to try and focus on the issues as it affects all the main parties policies and not just be seen as an internal Labour row. Trouble is JC & the Labour Party have scored so many own goals on it.

I am so sorry this is causing you so much trouble and making you ill. I have contributed to your campaign and I have told the Labour Party that I will not be funding them until they change their tune.

I think the thread has move on since I started this as I had to register first so apologies if my thoughts are now redundant.

I have skimmed the thread, will return to read it more closely.

I am a Labour voter both by upbringing and by subsequent conviction. I am so, so depressed by the way that the lefty dudebro has taken centre stage in the party. There were always male dinosaurs of the "make me a cuppa, love" type, but I find the current male activist "I'm a better feminist than you, bitch" type way, way worse.

I'm in the happy position of being able to vote Labour at the next election, because my (Labour) MP has given me a sympathetic hearing on this, and I genuinely believe that he understands the problem - and he's pledged to talk to others in the party about this.

If I was in Jeremy Corbyn's contituency, or Dawn Butler's, I honestly don't know what I'd do. There's nowhere else to go:

• the Tories are spearheading this whole bloody mess - Maria Miller started it, she's got Theresa May onside, they are really the ones to blame here.
• the Greens have been full of men of the "I'm a better feminist that you, bitch" type for as long as I've known about them.
• Lib Dems? Because they've been so good for women? Not.
• WEP useless witchunting handmaidens.

I'm more likely on here to write more of my disappointment with the Labour Party than with the other parties, because, basically, I expect better of them. I expect the Tories to be utter shits. I expect the Lib Dems to be useless. I grew up being inspired by some really amazing Labour women activists, second-wavers who taught me what feminism means, and I hate what the party is doing to shit all over their memories and work. Basically, I expect better from my friends than I do my enemies, and I am more angry when my friends stab me in the back than I am when my enemies do so.

I can totally understand why anyone is left without a political home, though. There isn't any party which at national level is standing up for women.

Can I not be a leftist who just doesn't really go in for the whole hero worship thing? Why is that not an option? That was honestly my biggest issue with the guy before he got involved in this gender nonsense.

(Well, that and Brexit.)

Are you sure about that? I've been a teller at counts, admittedly years ago. The returning officer reads out the number of rejected papers and the reasons for rejection. I don't recall them reading out what was on the paper.

Its certainly true in my area.

I know people who regularly have attended. One recalls the occasion where a candidate had to stand there and listen to a rather personal message on a paper.

The reason is because they have to ascertain whether every spoilt ballot is indeed spoilt and they have to ensure that all present are satisfied with that judgment for every ballot classed as spoilt.

I'll see if I can find the exact ruling on this.

LangCleg "Calm down, all. I'm sure it's Jen posting"

Is that better? That cements my initial impression (from the crowdfunding) that she is not the calibre I'd like to see in a politician. Even in this crazy world....!

It is Jennifer posting - she already confirmed it on Twitter.

But I agree with Bela - we need ALL women on this, regardless of political persuasion.

This is too big to just be about Labour any more.

Imagine the stress Jen has been under since all this started. It's no surprise she's getting triggered or seeing enemies where they don't exist. I'm sure she just needs a break and a calm down, after which she'll be able to separate her personal support for Corbyn from the wider issue of self-ID.

This.

Fight on policy, not politics.

It gets more support.

Any message written on a spoilt ballot must be read aloud at the count

Are you sure about that? I've been a teller at counts, admittedly years ago. The returning officer reads out the number of rejected papers and the reasons for rejection. I don't recall them reading out what was on the paper.

Sometimes it's "you're a Blairite!"

Or "you're a neo-liberal"

Crock of shite.

Calm down, all. I'm sure it's Jen posting. The crowdfunder is genuine. Imagine the stress Jen has been under since all this started. It's no surprise she's getting triggered or seeing enemies where they don't exist. I'm sure she just needs a break and a calm down, after which she'll be able to separate her personal support for Corbyn from the wider issue of self-ID.

Jen - this isn't a party political issue. Many women from outside Labour contributed to your crowdfunder for that very reason. At last, someone had finally done something constructive to which they could contribute. For them, this has nothing to do with internal Labour factioneering or which sections of the press support Labour and which don't. It's about women and women's rights. Only about women and women's rights.

Now be fair, not always. Sometimes it's "you're a Blairite!"

Corbyn has form for not understanding important issues in any detail, because he isn't interested / doesn't suit his agenda / they are not his pet issue.

He recently upset a lot of Labour MPs over Brexit at a meeting:

One said: "Jeremy said that when people voted to leave the EU, they voted to leave the single market. Single market membership requires us to be members of the EU."

Other MPs backed up the account and another said: "Corbyn again claimed that no country can be in the single market but outside the EU - clearly Norway needs to get in touch."

news.sky.com/story/pro-eu-labour-mps-hit-out-at-corbyn-for-taking-single-market-off-table-11200704

I think several were openly spitting feathers on social media over it, and he's said words to the same effect on the Sunday Politics shows in the past.

Even if you support leaving, that's poor. MPs of all shades not knowing their shit properly or deliberately misrepresenting it, are the problem in politics. Its a universal trait.

As for saying those who disagree are Tories, that is not the behaviour of anyone who is, er, an adult? Something very wrong here.

It is the attack Corbynites always use.

www.votenone.org.uk/protest_votes_count.html
This is an interesting read if anyone is seriously considering a spoilt / protest vote rather than staying at home.

I mean, he has access to the internet, yes? And he's not stupid.

@SerciteEland

I was suspicious of the GoFundMe but there's often reason to be suspicious of those.

This whole thing is so planned, so orchestrated - I've already said I think TRAs are MRAs and posing as a woman supporting a move away from self ID would certainly form part of all this.

As for saying those who disagree are Tories, that is not the behaviour of anyone who is, er, an adult? Something very wrong here.

OP has also mentioned that Jeremy Corbyn hasn't really understood the difference between transexual and transgender. If that were true, it would make all the parties just as incompetent as each other. I can believe it, but presenting it as a defence is bizarre.

Any message written on a spoilt ballot must be read aloud at the count.

That's very useful to know.

@Riverside2, I think it's likely it's her. I had the same question earlier. A poster whose handle I forget mentioined that JJ has also been on about this at her Twitter account. If you look there (her handle is @msjenniferjames, it's true. She's even called MNers who disagree with her "Tories" on her Twitter.

TBH now I'm a bit worried that her whole GoFundMe campaign has been a Corbyn backed operation the whole time, designed to demoralize those of us who are actually against self-ID. I can be paranoid though, but it is a worry with politics being the way it is these days...

Does anyone know if JJ was reinstated by Labour after being suspended? I can't imagine how any woman who was suspended for defending women could be so blind in her defense of the party who would do such a thing.

if this is really Jennifer James posting, I'm glad I didn't put too much faith in her....bizarre.

Really? Their website says "Membership is open to all self-identifying women." So that's me excluded then!

Feck, that’s disappointing. I’ve read a bit of there research on various things and it’s all on biological women. I’ve never looked at the membership page, how annoying that’s me back to the drawing board.

Girlscout72 I’m with you all the way.
Jennifer I was the one who originally brought the crowdfunder to MN’s attention - please don’t alienate Women of different political opinions, we need them, we need ALL of them.

Men are ruthless this is why they run the world, the Tories are ruthless this is why they keep winning elections, Momentum are ruthless, which is how they've taken over the party. 'Women be nice' is a catastrophic and dangerous position for us to take on this, and anyone saying so should pipe the F down.

Indeed.